Pynchons Problem

[rich]

I can accept concept-rich characters; most Pynchon successes are I would
argue. But Pynchon wants it both ways in AtD, rich concepts married to
rounded characters (heavy on dialogue, realistic situations, that dreaded
pit called "relationships", etc.) and it just doesnt work in my mind--it
dulls the concepts and heightens the dullness of those relationships and
dialogues.
the Snowden scene in Catch 22 is one of the few scenes in postmodern lit
where for a minute absolute pathos (for the reader) escapes from all that
ironic and comic posturing, those concepts if you will. i'm not sure even
Pynchon matches it (if u say Pokler, nope)

rich

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:

> A very arguable position, as are most...Even I, rereading AtD again and
> noted AtD fanboy [awarded by David Morris]
> am wrestling with how much TRP is articulating ideas about women vs.
> embodying them.........which feeds your argument
> from one perspective if he just adds the ideas in..............
>
> I am finding Lake and Yasheem conceptually 'rich' when explored yet not
> exactly "rounded" characters...
>
> Do you think, as I am also thinking on this reread, that TRP just put
> forward more overtly a lot of themes more embedded
> in earlier works----Buddist-like beliefs? anarchism?
> money-military-industrial complex [via Vibe allegory]? and, yes, views
> of women.........
>
> Just want to add that TRP did put, again playfully but at how much
> face-value per DM's true focus, chunks of first-wave
> feminism in the West into AtD---the frocks; their colors, a sign of life
> usually in him? ...
>
> I just reread that so-witty line about the mathematician going to mail
> something but
> having to wait because of the line of suffragettes.....
>
>
>
>   *From:* rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
> *To:* "“pynchon-l at waste.org“" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 12, 2012 11:43 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pynchons Problem
>
> apologies, Elaine Blair not Bell
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 11:40 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> the review is by Elaine Bell from the NY Review of Books about the latest
> novel by Houellbec. there is no relation to Pynchon in the review except my
> own feeling that Pynchon's work, in particular AtD, exhibited similar
> tendencies about some perceived (on my part) overcompensation by Pynchon in
> the portrayal of his women in that book thereby in my opinion making them
> even blander non-entities.
>
> rich
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>wrote:
>
> On 3/12/2012 10:03 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
>
> I think, and I've said it before, that Pynchon's whole oeuvre values
> women, as idea, as their qualities [of Womanhood] [largely missing] in
> society, history
> as without which we don't get real tenderness, family picnics, family
> values and children.......
> In AtD he gives us defiantly "liberated" Lake....[so much more to say
> here] and.....
> aggressively 'advanced'--within her male maths world---Yashmeen.
> Remember Kit shrinking
> under her verbal retorts?........
>
>
> Wow, a whole bunch of responses to this thread.
>
> But I missed something: what is the origin of Rich's quote? I just read
> the  review of Houellebecq's novel and received no clues.  Maybe I hurried
> through it too fast. Who was Rich quoting and what has it to do the the
> NYRB piece? Or, Pynchon? My bad, no doubt.
>
> P
>
>
>
> *From:* Bled Welder <bledwelder at hotmail.com>
> *To:* markekohut at yahoo.com; alicewellintown at gmail.com; pynchon-l at waste.org
> *Sent:* Monday, March 12, 2012 8:38 AM
> *Subject:* RE: Pynchons Problem
>
> There are feminist interpretations of Gravity's? Huh! Now I must rreally
> be missing something.
>
> Feminist, as in, what is a feminist interpretation of a novel, showing
> how the characters and viewpoints are enlightened about female equality?
> That's it basically?
>
> Gravity's Rainbow? Gosh that's sad. What's the opposite of feminist?
> Misogynist? That would be closer. From concept to detail--
>
> This will be fun. What are some like professional essays on the feminism
> of Gravity's that I might link to?
>
>
> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 05:14:19 -0700
> From: markekohut at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: Pynchons Problem
> To: alicewellintown at gmail.com; pynchon-l at waste.org
>
> Alice,
> stuff to argue with here but I will choose to say that AtD has P's
> fullest presenation
> of his ideas about women. And womanhood.
> And, one can't forget The White Goddess.
>
> *From:* alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
> *To:* pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 12, 2012 6:26 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Pynchons Problem
>
> In its self-deprecating humorous reflections, the Slow Learner
> Introduction admits that Pynchon was, like most American males (so
> Pynchon sez), an immature jackass and that his characters were
> invested with his chauvinistic attitudes. While I admire the feminist
> readings of GR, the feminism found there belongs to the critics and
> not the author. The author turns with VL. And his turn is awkward.
> Inherent Vice seems a novel written to appease Pynchon's wife and her
> feminist friends. AGtD, however, is a parody of his earlier turn and
> takes some revenge on his foolish surrender to the feminists.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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