ATD question about Lake's speech (217)

[Matthew Cissell]

Most phrasal verbs involve only one article (most often a preposition) but of course there are also three-part phrasal verbs of which your example is one. other examples are 'walk out on', and  'catch up with'.  But three prepostions? You won't find that in many textbooks.
 Mark, it's much more likely that the Traverse family got to the west coast by crossing the country, arrival from across the Pacific was just not as common. In fact it makes sense that they traversed the country with other families as the country expanded its frontiers. I know it's speculation, but I think it reasonable.

mc otis


----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: ATD question about Lake's speech (217)

On 4/30/2012 10:23 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> Matthew Cissell writes:
> Many of the first people to pass through the Cumberland gap, which
> allowed passage through the mountians, were catholics from Maryland who
> wanted to escape the increasing intolerance towards catholics there.
> Could the Traverses have crossed the same mountains, albeit further
> south and a bit later, as Mason and Dixon?
>
> Oh, check out those piled up prepositions. Somebody mentioned that in
> Munich and I think also in Lublin conferences (same person I believe);
> he argued it was a way to create disjointed syntax, or something like
> that. I just recall a british friend teasing me about american phrasal
> verbs with 3 prepostions. For example. "Y'all betta get on off down the
> road." People in Chicago do not speak like that.
>
> ciao
> mc otis
> Paul and Matthew,
> I am intrigued by the Appalachia remark, since I grew up and have
> returned to a periphery area of Appalachia---Pittsburgh, PA. (NEVER
> heard or at least never remembered the area being called Appalachian
> when I grew up----since it wanted to be Other, I'm sure. )
> I also think Pynchon is so good with language even in dialogue
> characterization---even if we think characterization is not a strength
> nor a major interest in some of the works. Look at the "what it is,
> is..." and that he has 7 (seven) OED entries for first print usage of
> certain words...[incl. "shrink"!]
> We also know Pynchon uses certain older meanings of words from the
> beginning---they are there in V. (see wiki, early pages even)
> Paul speculates so interestingly: "The Traverses must have arrived early
> in the New World, remained isolated in
> Appalachia, until moving west in the 19th Century."
> According to Vineland, the Traverse clan began (in the fictions) as
> loggers in the Pacific Northwest. Did they get there from appalachia
> in the 19th Century? The family heads WERE adventurous, courageous for
> survival at least, so very maybe. I love the possibility that TRP
> might show this in what the dictionaries call "archaic' language,
> embedding the Traverses deep into early American history silently.
> The only other writer I have read who does capture some of the historic
> speech of largely Scottish-Irish--English immigrants to the Appalachian
> area, some of whose speech patterns/usages survive, is Cormac McCarthy,
> although
> I am sure there are others (and there are some good local-area writers
> who seem realistically accurate, but they mostly capture contemporary
> talk).


Those triple prepositions Matthew mentions kind of do suggest hill 
country origins. I couldn't comment with any assurance.

Double prepositions are common in Urban American speech, though as I 
recall High school English teachers taught different.

out of

off of

P

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com
> <mailto:alicewellintown at gmail.com>>
> To: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> Cc:
> Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 3:30 PM
> Subject: Re: ATD question about Lake's speech (217)
>
> What other examples of Appalachian speech by characters can we
> identify? And, is the use of "behind" to mean "in the future" or "yet
> to come" Appalachian? Maybe it's a mistake.
>
>  > The Traverses must have arrived early in the New World, remained
> isolated in
>  > Appalachia, until moving west in the 19th Century.
>  >
>  > Maybe.
>
>