suddenly fascinated by feminism

Tue May 29 10:53:58 CDT 2012

Yes I don't know that if you pinned me down and threatened me with
something naughty that I wouldn't admit instantly I haven't the faintest
whether Pynchon is a god damned misogynist or a clubber for one.  I
wouldn't care if he were, mind you, in fact I might find it interesting, in
a way.  Who cares either way.  In a way, by which I may mean, if anybody
were dull enough to ever bring up feminist issues with respect to his work,
or anywhere really, for they are inherently dull, feminisms in all their
stripism and tropisms, I would be one pissed off bitch if I were black.

So I may have been exaggerating, heat of the post, sortathing, when I said
misogynist.  I usually, as a moral imperative, never exaggerate.  But I may
have there, teeniebit.

Anyway, I'm glad you won't be posting any more.  I jest!  I for one always
enjoy your posts.  Why be sober when posting to a Pynchonclub?  I've just
read the first 200 pages of MandD, 88% of it either takes places in a local
or involves imbibing elsewhere.  Although I have always been sober myself
while doing this Paunchcloob, by which I mean alcohol of course.  When I'm
flying with the Absolute Spirit in TimeDimension 27.525, or when I think
I've become God, or by far the best yet, when I realized I wasn't God but
the very Devil himself, well.

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Michael Bailey <
michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Madeleine Maudlin wrote:
> > There was a reason
> ....
> > standing erect with the myths, whathaveyou, or my interest starting in
> what
> > I feel must be the case with feminist interpretations, comments upon,
> > whatever you call them, of Pynchon's work, which would be fun actually,
> > knowing the works are patently misogynist but interpreting them as though
> > they were obviously really serious feminists stances.
>
> although I wouldn't agree that Mr Pynchon's work is misogynist, I, in
> my own cogitation and/or lucubration often get what seems to me a
> similar sort of cognitively dissonant kick in seeing serious analysis
> of patently funny works of inspired silliness that are made of
> dramatic, tragic and poetic parts
> (but somehow come alive)(and contain both sentens and solas)
>
> > one woman in the first 200 pages, Katje, and her entire role is fucking,
> > first Mexico, then Sloth-Pop.  Oh sure, talk all you want about her vital
> > role in the Visitation, whatever.  She fucks the important men, that's
> what
> > she does.  or is it a different chick who fucks Mexico?  He's like four
> > months ago for me now.
>
> Katje for me is the female Pirate.  Does she conjugate with
> somebody...maybe Slothrop... - can't really remember...
> seems like there is an octopus involved, isn't there?
> she's involved with, sent by, in hock to Them, but like Pirate there's
> a humanity to her and like Pirate, very rarely is the focus on her
>
> Roger Mexico and Jessica Jessica Jessica now that I remember, Roger I
> think is pretty hung up on her yes indeed but despite her playing
> house with Roger, she ultimately - well, I do not like to spoil the
> surprise ---
>
> > I'm on page 200 of AtD, where's the women.  There's the one who I've
> heard
> > discussed numerous times in the last few months who ends up fucking the
> man
> > who killed her father.  Again, talk all you want about...
> >
>
> not just copulating but marrying in a resonant church by the kind
> offices of a Swede,
> and staying with the dude getting down and dirty with him --- ---
> point being (imho) plumbing differences aside, women as well as men
> are prone to fall into all manner of odd bedfellowships and have
> interesting thought processes and occurrences, impulses toward joys of
> a sort however frustrated, dreams and recollections, and (I guess)
> that conceiving of (or to a lesser extent, reading about and
> envisioning) a character like Lake is a way of considering the cost of
> adversarial labor relations and how it's paid forward, and how
> offhandedly one might undertake a lifetime commitment and then stick
> to it, and how perhaps many women's experiences have a bit of the Lake
> about them...
>
> or something
>
>
> >
> > Something tells me I no little or nothing about feminism?  Or Pynchons
> work,
> > or the Coens' work, or anything.
>
> you were doing pretty well, I thought...not making the same points I
> would or in the same way, but hey, that's a feature not a bug...
>
> (I'd probably avoid much analysis of the Coens' work, although I'm
> more impressed by TBL than I used to be and at times I feel an almost
> giddy urge to tie the whole movie together around the Port Huron
> Statement...anyway....I'd probably approach feminism in Pynchon by
> posting an incomplete outline, something like
>
> a) feminism - what I take to be the salient points of it
> b) Pynchon's depiction of women viewed thru that lens
> c) Pynchon's male characters' views of women and how they affect me as
> a reader (I have never felt like many of the characters, vis a vis the
> opposite sex, but there are enough references that do resound
> appositely)
> d) is feminism alluded to rather than focused on?
> e) gender reversal in Vineland; the risk of decadence in the "New
> Morality" as played out in V.; the interplay of promiscuity and a
> state of war in GR;  the nostalgic attitude of Mason the widower and
> the Epicurean attitude of Dixon the roisterer
> f) in conclusion...
>
> and then fleshing out a few favorite points, quoting a few favorite
> passages and devolving into silliness until enchanted by the next
> topic, lather rinse repeat)
>
> but in feeling ignorant, if you are, you're not alone, me too, I'm
> making a mid-year resolution to post more soberly and briefly (in
> keeping with serious health problems faced by my beloved spouse and
> other pressing -- but not nearly so overwhelming -- domestic issues)
> that I intend to keep pretty well since it seems both proper and
> pleasant ---
>
> and may the Holy God of your choice keep you and cherish you safe and
> sound, hale and hearty, alive and well (whether s/he be hairy
> thunderer or cosmic muffin, or even only a figment inadequately
> describing coincidence)
>
> "some people like to go out dancing, while other people's they have to work
> - there's even some evil mothers who'll tell you everything is just
> dirt....
> and anyone who ever had a heart
> they wouldn't turn around and break it" -- Sweet Jane (Lou Reed & The
> Velvet Underground)
>
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