Critical Thinking

[malignd at aol.com]

Isn't that what M&D was, larded down with all the lame jokes and "funny" names and sophomoric humor and talking ducks, etc., that he can't seem to let go of?  Do you really want more of that?  I would like to see him seriously engage the present and toss aside all of what have long become weary stylistic tics and dead-in-the-water go-tos.



-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 11:27 am
Subject: Re: Critical Thinking


              

      Maybe what needs to happen is for Pynchon to bite the bullet and      get Retro. That's what readers, including "highbrow" ones,      probably want these days. So maybe, on the next novel, drop the      Tomfoolery and get more with the times.  
      
      In other words there's a lot of truth in what Rich said about the      readers' tastes changing. Rich was talking about himself, but we      can generalize it. Acknowledging this fact rather than laying it      all on the author's writing quality makes sense to me.  So in a      way it's Us not Him.  In a way, but not in a good way.
      
      What I'd like to see is for Pynchon to put his enormous talents to      something we might actually enjoy reading.  Horror, Gothic,      Mystery.  I'm not kidding.  These genres can be done very well if      the writer has talent.
      
      Please Mr. Pyncher, do it for your fans.
      
      
      P
      
      
      
      
      On 9/19/2012 10:44 AM, Keith Davis wrote:
    
    
I enjoyed IV and I'll read it again sometime. Don't      care if it's not earthshaking like GR. I took it as a parody of      detective fiction. Still recognized P's voice. Still weird and      funny.
      
      
        On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:22 AM, jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>        wrote:
        
          "Contrast it with IV, where the style is P at his worst."
          
          Some examples?
          
          "There i nothing wrong with Larry's story, but the telling of          it is poor."
          
          Some proof?
          
          The rest of your reasoning, Pynchon-wise, literature-wise, is          sound, in my eyes.
          
          
          
          > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:07 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>          wrote:
          >> one of the things I wonder about is as you say re          GR-- Pynchon
          >> "historical facts which were hard to find in middle          of the road
          >> history book." One of Pynchon' shtick was the          overly-detailed
          >> authentic voice/fact/scenarios he dreams up. but now          with the hyper
          >> info drip feed/accessible 24/7, is this not as cool          as it once was?
          >> i'm trying to denote clearly why say AtD is missing          the punch of
          >> previous books. is it he culled all the facts and          what came out was
          >> not so interesting as before, or we're all          encyclopedias now (that'll
          >> be my banner slogan, ha!) so if you replicate an era          precisely but you
          >> lack a convincing story, it doesnt matter how well          you write--it still
          >> comes off as dull or all research. M&D had those          characteristics also
          >> but the underpinning story was just as good I          thought.  In short, I
          >> guess I still enjoy Pynchon for the language, the          level of the
          >> sentence like I noted before about DeLIllo but not so          much anymore the
          >> stories he's telling or the level of historical          detail and research
          >> that went into the book.
          >>
          >> p.s. Kai I can appreciate that you argue with          non-novelists. I wish I
          >> had the stamina to read philosophy but I don't. guess          as Coover says
          >> we need stories or I need stories.
          >>
          >> rich
          >>
          >> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Kai Frederik          Lorentzen
          >> <lorentzen at hotmail.de>          wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> my favorite novelist
          >>>
          >>> Make that novelists: The slip - if telling at all          - probably has to do with
          >>> the fact that I reread Der Zauberberg (The Magic          Mountain) in early summer
          >>> and - Hey man, the best book! - it simply rocked          my mind. But Pynchon is
          >>> definitely still on my list!
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> On 18.09.2012 21:12, Kai Frederik Lorentzen          wrote:
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Myself I don't have this that much with novels          anymore. I argue in my mind
          >>> with philosophers, social scientists, or mystics.          Not with novelists, whose
          >>> works I consider more to be like symphonies or          poetry. To argue with Pynchon
          >>> about, say, his take on the Balkans question in          AtD does not appear to be
          >>> fruitful to me. It's like argueing with Ezra          Pound on Confucianism when you
          >>> read The Cantos. Gravity's Rainbow way back was          different insofar as it
          >>> contains historical facts which were hard to find          in middle of the road
          >>> history books. Of course it still interests me          what my favorite novelist
          >>> think about this and that - like Thomas Mann's          changing attitudes towards
          >>> the West over the years -, but basically it's all          about melody and rhythm.
          >>>
          >>> On 18.09.2012 15:41, rich wrote:
          >>>
          >>> something ive been mulling over in my mind          recently--do you find
          >>> yourself having conversations with the novels you          read (and indirectly
          >>> the novelist I suppose), I mean arguments,          questions, confusions,
          >>> anger at times, too. I wonder why despite feeling          somewhat negative
          >>> about Pynchon's last two books I continue to          engage them. Far be it
          >>> for me to want to be one of those guys or gals          who harp ad nauseum
          >>> about the things they obviously hate. I mean if          you dont feel the need
          >>> to argue with the writer you're reading, that          must mean something.
          >>> Pynchon has really annoyed me the last few yrs          (much of which
          >>> admittedly is not his fault--Ive changed, he          hasn't or maybe he has
          >>> who knows).  there seems to be some benefit for          me to argue with him.
          >>> guess i'll just continue on with that
          >>>
          >>> rich
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
        
      
      
      
      
      -- 
      www.innergroovemusic.com
    
    
  
 
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