Critical Thinking
Kai Frederik Lorentzen
lorentzen at hotmail.de
Thu Sep 20 05:55:00 CDT 2012
For me please a Wall Street Novel covering the years 1989-2008. About
350 pages.
And no talking animals!
On 20.09.2012 02:16, Don Higgins wrote:
> I'd like to see an 800 page civil war novel.
>
> --- On Wed, 9/19/12, malignd at aol.com /<malignd at aol.com>/ wrote:
>
>
> From: malignd at aol.com <malignd at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Critical Thinking
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2012, 5:38 PM
>
> Isn't that what M&D was, larded down with all the lame jokes and
> "funny" names and sophomoric humor and talking ducks, etc., that
> he can't seem to let go of? Do you really want more of that? I
> would like to see him seriously engage the present and toss aside
> all of what have long become weary stylistic tics and
> dead-in-the-water go-tos.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
> To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 11:27 am
> Subject: Re: Critical Thinking
>
>
> Maybe what needs to happen is for Pynchon to bite the bullet and
> get Retro. That's what readers, including "highbrow" ones,
> probably want these days. So maybe, on the next novel, drop the
> Tomfoolery and get more with the times.
>
> In other words there's a lot of truth in what Rich said about the
> readers' tastes changing. Rich was talking about himself, but we
> can generalize it. Acknowledging this fact rather than laying it
> all on the author's writing quality makes sense to me. So in a
> way it's Us not Him. In a way, but not in a good way.
>
> What I'd like to see is for Pynchon to put his enormous talents to
> something we might actually enjoy reading. Horror, Gothic,
> Mystery. I'm not kidding. These genres can be done very well if
> the writer has talent.
>
> Please Mr. Pyncher, do it for your fans.
>
>
> P
>
>
>
>
> On 9/19/2012 10:44 AM, Keith Davis wrote:
>> I enjoyed IV and I'll read it again sometime. Don't care if it's
>> not earthshaking like GR. I took it as a parody of detective
>> fiction. Still recognized P's voice. Still weird and funny.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:22 AM, jochen stremmel
>> <jstremmel at gmail.com </mc/compose?to=jstremmel at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> "Contrast it with IV, where the style is P at his worst."
>>
>> Some examples?
>>
>> "There i nothing wrong with Larry's story, but the telling of
>> it is poor."
>>
>> Some proof?
>>
>> The rest of your reasoning, Pynchon-wise, literature-wise, is
>> sound, in my eyes.
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:07 PM, rich
>> <richard.romeo at gmail.com
>> </mc/compose?to=richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >> one of the things I wonder about is as you say re GR-- Pynchon
>> >> "historical facts which were hard to find in middle of the
>> road
>> >> history book." One of Pynchon' shtick was the overly-detailed
>> >> authentic voice/fact/scenarios he dreams up. but now with
>> the hyper
>> >> info drip feed/accessible 24/7, is this not as cool as it
>> once was?
>> >> i'm trying to denote clearly why say AtD is missing the
>> punch of
>> >> previous books. is it he culled all the facts and what
>> came out was
>> >> not so interesting as before, or we're all encyclopedias
>> now (that'll
>> >> be my banner slogan, ha!) so if you replicate an era
>> precisely but you
>> >> lack a convincing story, it doesnt matter how well you
>> write--it still
>> >> comes off as dull or all research. M&D had those
>> characteristics also
>> >> but the underpinning story was just as good I thought. In
>> short, I
>> >> guess I still enjoy Pynchon for the language, the level of the
>> >> sentence like I noted before about DeLIllo but not so much
>> anymore the
>> >> stories he's telling or the level of historical detail and
>> research
>> >> that went into the book.
>> >>
>> >> p.s. Kai I can appreciate that you argue with
>> non-novelists. I wish I
>> >> had the stamina to read philosophy but I don't. guess as
>> Coover says
>> >> we need stories or I need stories.
>> >>
>> >> rich
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
>> >> <lorentzen at hotmail.de
>> </mc/compose?to=lorentzen at hotmail.de>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> my favorite novelist
>> >>>
>> >>> Make that novelists: The slip - if telling at all -
>> probably has to do with
>> >>> the fact that I reread Der Zauberberg (The Magic
>> Mountain) in early summer
>> >>> and - Hey man, the best book! - it simply rocked my mind.
>> But Pynchon is
>> >>> definitely still on my list!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 18.09.2012 21:12, Kai Frederik Lorentzen wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Myself I don't have this that much with novels anymore. I
>> argue in my mind
>> >>> with philosophers, social scientists, or mystics. Not
>> with novelists, whose
>> >>> works I consider more to be like symphonies or poetry. To
>> argue with Pynchon
>> >>> about, say, his take on the Balkans question in AtD does
>> not appear to be
>> >>> fruitful to me. It's like argueing with Ezra Pound on
>> Confucianism when you
>> >>> read The Cantos. Gravity's Rainbow way back was different
>> insofar as it
>> >>> contains historical facts which were hard to find in
>> middle of the road
>> >>> history books. Of course it still interests me what my
>> favorite novelist
>> >>> think about this and that - like Thomas Mann's changing
>> attitudes towards
>> >>> the West over the years -, but basically it's all about
>> melody and rhythm.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 18.09.2012 15:41, rich wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> something ive been mulling over in my mind recently--do
>> you find
>> >>> yourself having conversations with the novels you read
>> (and indirectly
>> >>> the novelist I suppose), I mean arguments, questions,
>> confusions,
>> >>> anger at times, too. I wonder why despite feeling
>> somewhat negative
>> >>> about Pynchon's last two books I continue to engage them.
>> Far be it
>> >>> for me to want to be one of those guys or gals who harp
>> ad nauseum
>> >>> about the things they obviously hate. I mean if you dont
>> feel the need
>> >>> to argue with the writer you're reading, that must mean
>> something.
>> >>> Pynchon has really annoyed me the last few yrs (much of which
>> >>> admittedly is not his fault--Ive changed, he hasn't or
>> maybe he has
>> >>> who knows). there seems to be some benefit for me to
>> argue with him.
>> >>> guess i'll just continue on with that
>> >>>
>> >>> rich
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.innergroovemusic.com <http://www.innergroovemusic.com>
>
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