I wouldn't prescribe, but yes, wouldn't that be interesting. In the meantime, read JR.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kai Frederik Lorentzen <lorentzen at hotmail.de>
To: Don Higgins <bencanard2000 at yahoo.com>; Pynchon List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2012 6:55 am
Subject: Re: Critical Thinking
For me please a Wall Street Novel covering the years 1989-2008. About 350 pages.
And no talking animals!
On 20.09.2012 02:16, Don Higgins wrote:
I'd like to see an 800 page civil war novel.
--- On Wed, 9/19/12, malignd at aol.com <malignd at aol.com> wrote:
From: malignd at aol.com <malignd at aol.com>
Subject: Re: Critical Thinking
To: pynchon-l at waste.org
Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2012, 5:38 PM
Isn't that what M&D was, larded down with all the lame jokes and "funny" names and sophomoric humor and talking ducks, etc., that he can't seem to let go of? Do you really want more of that? I would like to see him seriously engage the present and toss aside all of what have long become weary stylistic tics and dead-in-the-water go-tos.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
To: pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Wed, Sep 19, 2012 11:27 am
Subject: Re: Critical Thinking
Maybe what needs to happen is for Pynchon to bite the bullet and get Retro. That's what readers, including "highbrow" ones, probably want these days. So maybe, on the next novel, drop the Tomfoolery and get more with the times.
In other words there's a lot of truth in what Rich said about the readers' tastes changing. Rich was talking about himself, but we can generalize it. Acknowledging this fact rather than laying it all on the author's writing quality makes sense to me. So in a way it's Us not Him. In a way, but not in a good way.
What I'd like to see is for Pynchon to put his enormous talents to something we might actually enjoy reading. Horror, Gothic, Mystery. I'm not kidding. These genres can be done very well if the writer has talent.
Please Mr. Pyncher, do it for your fans.
P
On 9/19/2012 10:44 AM, Keith Davis wrote:
I enjoyed IV and I'll read it again sometime. Don't care if it's not earthshaking like GR. I took it as a parody of detective fiction. Still recognized P's voice. Still weird and funny.
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:22 AM, jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
"Contrast it with IV, where the style is P at his worst."
Some examples?
"There i nothing wrong with Larry's story, but the telling of it is poor."
Some proof?
The rest of your reasoning, Pynchon-wise, literature-wise, is sound, in my eyes.
> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:07 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> one of the things I wonder about is as you say re GR-- Pynchon
>> "historical facts which were hard to find in middle of the road
>> history book." One of Pynchon' shtick was the overly-detailed
>> authentic voice/fact/scenarios he dreams up. but now with the hyper
>> info drip feed/accessible 24/7, is this not as cool as it once was?
>> i'm trying to denote clearly why say AtD is missing the punch of
>> previous books. is it he culled all the facts and what came out was
>> not so interesting as before, or we're all encyclopedias now (that'll
>> be my banner slogan, ha!) so if you replicate an era precisely but you
>> lack a convincing story, it doesnt matter how well you write--it still
>> comes off as dull or all research. M&D had those characteristics also
>> but the underpinning story was just as good I thought. In short, I
>> guess I still enjoy Pynchon for the language, the level of the
>> sentence like I noted before about DeLIllo but not so much anymore the
>> stories he's telling or the level of historical detail and research
>> that went into the book.
>>
>> p.s. Kai I can appreciate that you argue with non-novelists. I wish I
>> had the stamina to read philosophy but I don't. guess as Coover says
>> we need stories or I need stories.
>>
>> rich
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
>> <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> my favorite novelist
>>>
>>> Make that novelists: The slip - if telling at all - probably has to do with
>>> the fact that I reread Der Zauberberg (The Magic Mountain) in early summer
>>> and - Hey man, the best book! - it simply rocked my mind. But Pynchon is
>>> definitely still on my list!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18.09.2012 21:12, Kai Frederik Lorentzen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Myself I don't have this that much with novels anymore. I argue in my mind
>>> with philosophers, social scientists, or mystics. Not with novelists, whose
>>> works I consider more to be like symphonies or poetry. To argue with Pynchon
>>> about, say, his take on the Balkans question in AtD does not appear to be
>>> fruitful to me. It's like argueing with Ezra Pound on Confucianism when you
>>> read The Cantos. Gravity's Rainbow way back was different insofar as it
>>> contains historical facts which were hard to find in middle of the road
>>> history books. Of course it still interests me what my favorite novelist
>>> think about this and that - like Thomas Mann's changing attitudes towards
>>> the West over the years -, but basically it's all about melody and rhythm.
>>>
>>> On 18.09.2012 15:41, rich wrote:
>>>
>>> something ive been mulling over in my mind recently--do you find
>>> yourself having conversations with the novels you read (and indirectly
>>> the novelist I suppose), I mean arguments, questions, confusions,
>>> anger at times, too. I wonder why despite feeling somewhat negative
>>> about Pynchon's last two books I continue to engage them. Far be it
>>> for me to want to be one of those guys or gals who harp ad nauseum
>>> about the things they obviously hate. I mean if you dont feel the need
>>> to argue with the writer you're reading, that must mean something.
>>> Pynchon has really annoyed me the last few yrs (much of which
>>> admittedly is not his fault--Ive changed, he hasn't or maybe he has
>>> who knows). there seems to be some benefit for me to argue with him.
>>> guess i'll just continue on with that
>>>
>>> rich
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
--
www.innergroovemusic.com
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