NP-Proust

[Paul Mackin]

On 9/24/2012 7:58 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen wrote:
>
> My wife and I read the /Recherche/ together. The largest part - first 
> 3/4, until Albertine vanishes - we even read out to each other, which 
> was one of the best experiences in my life. During the rush-hour years 
> we couldn't keep up that ritual and had to finish the book each on our 
> own. But this year - both kids are teenagers now - we started to read 
> out Proust to each other again. The musical flow is one thing about it 
> (the excellent German translation by Eva Reichel-Mertens, a pupil of 
> Ernst Robert Curtius, transports this very adequately, as far as I can 
> tell from having read some favourite passages in the original, which 
> we have here on the shelf in the beautiful one-volumen-edition of 
> 'Quarto Gallimard'), the sophisticated and sometimes malicious humor 
> another. And of course you can also learn a lot about the French 
> society at the turn of the century. Proust, however, shouldn't be 
> misunderstood as a quasi-sociologist. His aesthetic conception, that 
> owes a lot to Wagner, is basically one of art-religion 
> (Kunstreligion). But what do I know? Proust spares the reader the 
> illusion to be more intelligent than the author, as Adorno once put 
> it. The work is nevertheless not elitist at all: "D'ailleurs, que nous 
> occupions une place sans cesse acrue dans le Temps, tout le monde le 
> sent, et cette universalité ne pouvait que me réjouir puisque c'est la 
> vérité, la vérité soupconnée par chacun que je devais chercher à 
> éludicer."  And those people who say it's too long for them, they 
> simply don't know what they're missing ...

Thought I'd type in the Enright translation of the quote because I 
personally find the observation  so true--like the Duke standing atop so 
many years. Wobbly legs and all.

Moreover, that we occupy a place, always growing, in Time is something 
everybody is conscious of, and this universality could only make me 
rejoice, it being the truth, the truth suspected by each of us, that I 
had to seek to elucidate.

P

>
> (As an intro newbies may also see the comic adaptations of 
> /Remembrance of Things Past/ by Stéphane Heuet: Combray and Within A 
> Budding Grove 1 & 2, New York: NBM
>
> On 24.09.2012 05:21, Bekah wrote:
>> A frind and I read Proust together.  One volume a month and then we'd discuss that one and then the next month,  the next volume.  We'd keep tabs on each other to see if we were both chugging along.  Yup.  And we did it.   It's not bad after you get the style and the  rhythm - there's  nice flow.  There are some places where it almost stops but for one long precious thought at a time,  Marcel makes it though the waiting room for the reception - can't remember where that is now but at that point I got irritated.
>>
>> Fwiw,  I just now realized it took me the about same amount of time as Finnegan's Wake.
>>
>> Bekah
>>
>>
>> On Sep 23, 2012, at 6:09 PM, David Morris<fqmorris at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, Bekah, Proust I've not read past two pages.  Slow, no? Maybe Western Zen? I wouldn't know...
>>> But I doN't want to sound like a redneck!
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Bekah wrote:
>>> I'm not sure it matters -   I've read the volumes in different translations (LOL!)
>>>
>>> The reason is that I already had Swann's Way on the shelf in the old Scott Montcrieff translation but when I went to get the next three they were available in the new Penguin translations by James Grieve,  Mark Trehane,  John Sturrock.  But the last 2 volumes had not been translated for that series so I went back to the Scott Montrcrieff.
>>>
>>> **** THIS IS A REVIEW BY AN AMAZON READER **** (but I agree with it):
>>>
>>> Just as a general note with Proust translations, compare them in a bookstore before you buy any of them.
>>>
>>> There is the original C.K. Scott Moncrieff translation, which is beautiful, though based on a flawed edition put together shortly after Proust's death (especially the later books in the set).
>>>
>>> Then there is Terrence Kilmartin's revision, which is based on a much better French edition. You can still find editions of this used, and occasionally new as well. I prefer this one, as Kilmartin didn't change most of the truly beautiful language that Moncrieff rendered except in a few places to clarify confusing sentences.
>>>
>>> D.J. Enright, who worked with Kilmartin, made further revisions after the latter's death, whose work (so he says) was incomplete. His reworking is based on yet an even newer edition of the French text, though with fewer changes than the previous French edition had from the original. I feel that Enright modernized the language too much. He claims French hasn't changed much as a language compared to English since the early 20th Century, so to approximate how it would read to a French person today, it needs to be put into more comtemporary language. I don't care for it personally.
>>>
>>> I've read some of these other, altogether new translations, which is a good effort considering the potential for incoherence you might have reading a revision of a revision of a translation (whew!). They're not bad, but nowhere near as much of a "new standard" as, say, the Pevear-Volokhonsky translations of Dostoevsky, which give the reader a clearer original while still using beautiful and idiomatic English.
>>>
>>> But back to Proust. Decide for yourself! Compare an old version of Moncrieff's translation to his revisors, and then check out these new ones published by Penguin.
>>>
>>> And better yet, if you understand French at all, look at a French copy and just absorb the rhythm, the flow of the words, and find a translation that feels the same.
>>>
>>> I can't tell you how many times I've spoken to people who hated foreign books in translation, only to find out they read a translation that reads like a textbook and not like something that was meant to be enjoyed!!
>>>
>>> **********************************
>>>
>>> Me again:
>>>
>>> Bottom line, imo  -  if you're a new reader and not used to the old Montcrieff or Enright or something,  go with the newer Penguin Classics translations (2005).  If you've already started one of the old translations,  try the new version and see how you like it -  if not - go with what you like.
>>>
>>> Try them out in some bookstore or sample you find online.
>>>
>>> The Penguin translations are NOT done by the same person all the way through.  This means they're not all smooth like the Moncrieff/Kilmartin/ Enright ones. Each book reads a bit differently, style-wise.
>>>
>>> Bekah
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 23, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Rich Clavey<antizoyd at yahoo.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any opinions as to which English translation of Proust to read?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> rich
>>>>
>>>> http://www.macclaveyphotography.com/
>


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