Today's discussion question

[Ian Livingston]

Well, fact and mysticism may or may not be reconcilable, but religion and
mysticism will ever be at odds because any profoundly mystical experience
lays bare the inadequacies of religious metaphor--well, of language in
general, really. That includes the metaphors of reincarnation, karma,
heaven, God and such. When a great mystical experience is translated into
terms religious or poetic, such violence is done to the experiential
knowledge that its carrier is most fortunate when struck dumb.


On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 6:40 PM, alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com
> wrote:

> He will never encounter anything that will persuade you, MalignD, but
> he may have an experience that will, as it has others, persuade him.
> Of course, such experiences are the foundation of modern adaptatons of
> traditional religions. In other words, an immediate awareness of
> relation with a decine presense or mysticism.
>
> Because modern peoples are weary of ancient traditions, and because
> modern peoples have built and discovered modern ways, no ancient or
> childlike trust in the elders or the prophets or whatever the sages of
> old handed down, what the scibes writ will do. We want facts. We don't
> want authority. We want experience not dogmatic constructs. So the
> mystical religion, that is, religion grounded in experience. So, if
> one looks for evidence of reincarnation or resurrection or grace, one
> may find it in experience.
>
> Will it ever happen for for YOU?
>
> Not even MalignD can can say.
>
>  8/16/13, malignd at aol.com <malignd at aol.com> wrote:
> > Nor will you.
> >
> > I've never encountered anything like persuasive evidence of
> reincarnation.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> > To: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Bekah <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>; malignd <malignd at aol.com>;
> pynchon-l
> > <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > Sent: Thu, Aug 15, 2013 9:44 pm
> > Subject: Re: Today's discussion question
> >
> >
> > Well, the (Tibetan Mahayana) Buddhist model is not limited to this world.
> > There are myriad other worlds in Samsara. We're only passing through this
> > one, en route to eventual enlightenment.
> >
> >
> > I've never encountered anything like persuasive evidence of
> reincarnation.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 6:33 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I would like to see a math model of just the human accounting on how the
> > present exploding population works with retreaded souls as a ratio of
> new to
> > old.  There must be a huge source of new human souls yet to go spinning
> on
> > this Merry-Go-Round.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, August 15, 2013, Bekah  wrote:
> >
> > If reincarnation is true there are a whole lot of dead people waiting for
> > another shot at life - either that or they've come back as cockroaches -
>  in
> > which case I suspect we have extra lives coming from somewhere.
> >
> > I just don't see how the accounting works out.
> >
> >
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fact-or-fiction-living-outnumber-dead
> >
> > Bek
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:53 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The concept of reincarnation long predates the advent of Buddhism in
> >> India.
> >>
> >> I don't find it useful, since access to lessons learned in a previous
> >> lives isn't common nor plausible when through hypnosis people recall
> being
> >> Napoleon or Cleopatra. If there is a kernel of truth in the concept of
> >> reincarnation it seems to me useful as a way to understand inherent
> >> knowledge, instincts, in every living being, passed on via eons of
> >> evolution. Collective Conciousness?
> >>
> >> David Morris
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thursday, August 15, 2013, wrote:
> >> It's not remotely plausible.  Where would you suggest this "knowledge"
> >> comes from?
> >> The idea that the Tibetans
> >> know something in regard to reincarnation that we don't seems perfectly
> >> plausible.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> >> To: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >> Sent: Thu, Aug 15, 2013 11:16 am
> >> Subject: Re: Today's discussion question
> >>
> >> Unless it is true. This idea has been around for a long time and has had
> >> some
> >> non bubble headed proponents who may perceive things unseen by a certain
> >> kind of
> >> logic. I am agnostic on all questions that seek to definitively describe
> >> other
> >> dimensions of experience, but some of my own experiences have kept me
> >> from
> >> closing the door on this and I do not find that leaving the question
> open
> >> induces any more bubble headedness than watching TV. The idea that the
> >> Tibetans
> >> know something in regard to reincarnation that we don't seems perfectly
> >> plausible.
> >> On Aug 14, 2013, at 6:18 PM, David Morris wrote:
> >>
> >> > But you're right about my attitudes; the idea that the DL is a
> >> > reincarnated
> >> spirit is as bubble-headed as any other religious myth.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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