Pynchon & Math (Aristotle vs. Plato)

[Markekohut]

 We reduce the range of expression in AtD if we read Yahmeen's poignant, earnest seeking as 
Another joke. 

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 25, 2013, at 5:45 PM, alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com> wrote:

> Pynchon can't resist a joke, an inside joke, like all inside all the
> theads of the seats we are  sitting on that is suddenly yanked out
> from under our comfee postures, if we still have them, type-joak, so
> he tickles us with the ancient battle that boyz and girlz who play at
> this game are game to. But to what end? Shit if I know. I'm not gunna
> go read  The Republic_ one more time becuae I've reading this Pynchon,
> Cohen, and the Crisis of Victorian Mathematics
> 
> Thomas Dechand
> 
> And, I mybe neer get the joak, exactly, but I got it the first time
> close enough.
> 
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> This is Yashmeen, right? who gives up math? #notanaccident
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Jan 25, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On 1/25/2013 2:07 AM, Prashant Kumar wrote:
>> 
>> The interesting thing about this dichotomy (in the proper approach to
>> Ethics) you mention is that it presupposes a  Platonic conception of
>> mathematics; mathematics as a menagerie of axiomatically true pieces of
>> abstraction.
>> 
>> A fallibilistic conception of mathematics (the mathematical empiricism of
>> Quine and Putnam), itself descended from the american pragmatists, which
>> conceives of mathematical theorems as contingent truths, will result in a
>> more nebulous notion of precision.
>> 
>> I would argue this sort of naturalism, nature as a series of convenient but
>> contingent truths, is a staple of american fiction more generally. For
>> example, look at how Pynchon handles the feud between the Quaternionists and
>> the Vectorists in AtD.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Mathematics once seemed the way--the internal life of numbers came as a
>> revelation to me, perhaps as it might have to a Pythagorean apprentice long
>> ago in Crotona--a reflection of some less accessible reality, through close
>> study of which one might learn to pass on beyond the difficult given world."
>> 
>> AtD. p. 749.
>> 
>> P
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> P.
>> 
>> On 24 January 2013 22:57, alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Several critical studies examine Pynchon and the American Pragmatists.
>>> 
>>> I think a good place to turn is to Aristotle. Here in an Introduction
>>> we see a basic difference in Aristotle from Plato and Socrates, and
>>> specifically, on Ethics. The wisdom of Aristotle is that he accepts
>>> the idea that it is wise to examine or explore a topic only so far as
>>> the topic permits, that there is an exhaustion point, and that in
>>> Ethics, and in Politics, the topic does not allow for examination as
>>> it does in other sciences.
>>> 
>>> Is the application of math to Ethics and Politics Fascist? Maybe.
>>> Maybe something in that GR....
>>> 
>>> Is Plato a Fascist?
>>> 
>>> No, but the math....
>>> 
>>> The main difference between Plato and Aristotle is this: Plato thought
>>> ethics was an exact (theoretical) science; Aristotle thought precision
>>> was extremely difficult in a science such as ethics. Please note that
>>> "science" is being used in its ancient sense of knowledge in general.
>>> 
>>> THE PROPER METHOD FOR ETHICS (Bk. I, Sec. 3)
>>> 
>>>> From ethics one can expect only as much precision as the subject
>>> matter allows. This is opposite to Plato's belief, because it does not
>>> allow for any mathematical exactness. Does this mean, then, that moral
>>> rules are "conventions," made up or created by humans? No, they are
>>> natural, but they are not like Plato's immutable forms. Aristotle
>>> avoids ethical relativism because of his confidence in human reason
>>> and experience to decide on general courses of action.
>>> 
>>> Plato approached ethical questions with a formal, abstract approach,
>>> analyzing each just as he would analyze a math problem. Aristotle,
>>> though, believed that because of all the human variables found in
>>> ethics (but not found in the formal sciences), mathematical precision
>>> was impossible.
>>> 
>>> http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/103/aristotle.htm
>> 
>> 
>>