Pynchon & Math (Aristotle vs. Plato)

[Iris Sirius]

That, youre, note,just here, what was I just on aboot?
On Jan 26, 2013 6:02 AM, "Monte Davis" <montedavis at verizon.net> wrote:

> I think there may be a conflation of “reality” with “exactness” and
> “precision” lurking here. First, a silly and wise old science/math joke: A
> wealthy horse fancier decides to bring science to bear on his passion, and
> hires three professors to learn what makes the fastest horse. A year later,
> the biologist tells him: “There appears to be an association with descent
> from the Darley Arabian, and with high levels of creatine phosphatase.” The
> engineer tells him: “The optimal ratio of third metacarpal length to
> proximal phalanx length is between 2.15 and 2.35.” And the physicist tells
> him: “I’m making real progress on the frictionless spherical homogeneous
> horse.”****
>
> ** **
>
> Pedestrian (bipedal) unfolding: in the spectrum sketched here, the
> mathematical-physics end promises rigor and precision – and maybe, down the
> line, predictive power -- *because* of its abstraction. The initial model
> is chosen to be mathematically tractable, and to have no relevant
> attributes that are not explicit in the model. At the other end, the
> biologist is much less certain: so many other developmental and
> environmental factors are at work that these two are bare starting points.
> And the engineer, somewhere in between, settles for a working rule of, uhh,
> thumb that could actually be applied (and evaluated, and incrementally
> refined) in the stable rather than the lab.****
>
> ** **
>
> Bertrand Russell’s alternate, gnomic version: "Mathematics is the subject
> in which we know neither what we are talking about nor whether what we say
> is true." Again, the certainty gained by abstraction – whether 2+2=4 or
> Cantor’s hierarchy of infinities – may or may not carry over to any
> particular entities “out there” which we talk about, or to predictions
> about them.****
>
> ** **
>
> Consider the exemplars in AtD, from Yashmeen’s airy math and relativity to
> the purposeful metal of ocean liner/warships and submarines and dive
> bombers. Consider the seriously punning juxtapositions, such as “wormholes”
> blasted and drilled by sweating miners, or a magic mirror smack dab in the
> reflective center of the text. Pynchon has an extraordinary awareness of
> both the spectrum (pure math -> mathematical science ->
> technology/engineering) and the strange colors you can get by mixing.****
>
> ** **
>
> FWIW, I’m 90% Aristotelian: I do feel the Platonic and gnostic appeal of
> abstraction/certainty, but I think it’s the shadow rather than the
> substance, not the other way around.  ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Paul Mackin
> *Sent:* Friday, January 25, 2013 4:07 PM
> *To:* pynchon-l at waste.org
> *Subject:* Re: Pynchon & Math (Aristotle vs. Plato)****
>
> ** **
>
> On 1/25/2013 2:07 AM, Prashant Kumar wrote:****
>
> The interesting thing about this dichotomy (in the proper approach to
> Ethics) you mention is that it presupposes a  Platonic conception of
> mathematics; mathematics as a menagerie of axiomatically true pieces of
> abstraction. ****
>
> ** **
>
> A fallibilistic conception of mathematics (the mathematical empiricism of
> Quine and Putnam), itself descended from the american pragmatists, which
> conceives of mathematical theorems as contingent truths, will result in a
> more nebulous notion of precision.****
>
> ** **
>
> I would argue this sort of naturalism, nature as a series of convenient
> but contingent truths, is a staple of american fiction more generally. For
> example, look at how Pynchon handles the feud between the Quaternionists
> and the Vectorists in AtD.****
>
>
>
> "Mathematics once seemed the way--the internal life of numbers came as a
> revelation to me, perhaps as it might have to a Pythagorean apprentice long
> ago in Crotona--a reflection of some less accessible reality, through close
> study of which one might learn to pass on beyond the difficult given world."
>
> AtD. p. 749.
>
> P
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> P.****
>
> On 24 January 2013 22:57, alice wellintown <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Several critical studies examine Pynchon and the American Pragmatists.
>
> I think a good place to turn is to Aristotle. Here in an Introduction
> we see a basic difference in Aristotle from Plato and Socrates, and
> specifically, on Ethics. The wisdom of Aristotle is that he accepts
> the idea that it is wise to examine or explore a topic only so far as
> the topic permits, that there is an exhaustion point, and that in
> Ethics, and in Politics, the topic does not allow for examination as
> it does in other sciences.
>
> Is the application of math to Ethics and Politics Fascist? Maybe.
> Maybe something in that GR....
>
> Is Plato a Fascist?
>
> No, but the math....
>
> The main difference between Plato and Aristotle is this: Plato thought
> ethics was an exact (theoretical) science; Aristotle thought precision
> was extremely difficult in a science such as ethics. Please note that
> "science" is being used in its ancient sense of knowledge in general.
>
> THE PROPER METHOD FOR ETHICS (Bk. I, Sec. 3)
>
> >From ethics one can expect only as much precision as the subject
> matter allows. This is opposite to Plato's belief, because it does not
> allow for any mathematical exactness. Does this mean, then, that moral
> rules are "conventions," made up or created by humans? No, they are
> natural, but they are not like Plato's immutable forms. Aristotle
> avoids ethical relativism because of his confidence in human reason
> and experience to decide on general courses of action.
>
> Plato approached ethical questions with a formal, abstract approach,
> analyzing each just as he would analyze a math problem. Aristotle,
> though, believed that because of all the human variables found in
> ethics (but not found in the formal sciences), mathematical precision
> was impossible.
>
> http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/103/aristotle.htm****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
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