Thich Nhat Hagn's "Fear"

[Ian Livingston]

Love and Death. One just ain't the same without the other.


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:34 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> This thread started with a (Buddhist) portrayal of birth experienced as
> ejection from "The Palace of the Child" into a world first experienced
> by two primal experiences: Fear and Desire.  The fear is of death.  The
> desire is for life.
>
> This made me think of Freud's Pleasure Principle, and his Death Drive.
>
> No conclusions here.  Just thinking...
>
> David Morris
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 30, 2013, Rev'd Seventy-Six wrote:
>
>> That's Kool and the gang. All I am saying is:  there is a nigh unto
>> bottomless resevoir of negative experience in the arts & sciences. I
>> would appreciate that balanced a tad, esp. in this tilted age. The
>> Inferno wasn't a challenge to Dante: Paradise, however, exceeded his
>> reach. I would prefer not to equate birth with a plummet into a sphere
>> of profane dread & agony. In the arts we have come to confuse realism
>> with suffering when it ain't the lion's share, experience-wise. Maybe
>> I'm naive...
>>
>> On 7/30/13, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > I don't.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> > On Jul 30, 2013, at 6:24 PM, malignd at aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm not sure how to read this group anymore.  Does anyone think Becket
>> was
>> >> serious?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Monte Davis <montedavis at verizon.net>
>> >> To: 'David Morris' <fqmorris at gmail.com>; 'Ian Livingston'
>> >> <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>> >> Cc: 'Keith Davis' <kbob42 at gmail.com>; 'P-list' <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> >> Sent: Tue, Jul 30, 2013 6:05 am
>> >> Subject: RE: Thich Nhat Hagn's "Fear"
>> >>
>> >> Oh, it’s downhill well before that. Samuel Beckett in a 1970 interview:
>> >> “Even before the foetus can draw breath it is in a state of barrenness
>> and
>> >> of pain. I have a clear memory of my own foetal existence. It was an
>> >> existence where no voice, no possible movement could free me from the
>> >> agony and darkness I was subjected to.”
>> >>
>> >> And in _Murphy_, Neary curses the day he was born “and then, in a bold
>> >> flashback, the night he was conceived.”
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On
>> >> Behalf Of David Morris
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:51 AM
>> >> To: Ian Livingston
>> >> Cc: Keith Davis; P-list
>> >> Subject: Re: Thich Nhat Hagn's "Fear"
>> >>
>> >> Yes. That is a clear way of explaining the root experience and its
>> later
>> >> recognition/identification.
>> >>
>> >> On Monday, July 29, 2013, Ian Livingston wrote:
>> >> Maybe the way to reconcile your perspectives, which both seem valid,
>> is to
>> >> remove the labels. Birth is the first appearance the emotional
>> sensation
>> >> that is later associated with fear, coupled with the sensation of
>> >> emotional resistance to that proto-fear that is later identified as
>> >> desire.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:39 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> Sure.  But birth is a stark initial lesson in separateness, even if the
>> >> "self" hasn't yet formed. And I think initial experiencing the
>> sensation
>> >> of fear and desire is TNH's focus, something that precedes a self.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Monday, July 29, 2013, Keith Davis wrote:
>> >> The only clarification might be that there is no consciousness of the
>> fear
>> >> and desire until we reach the point where we become aware of a"self" as
>> >> separate from other "selves", where we develop an "individual
>> >> consciousness".
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:13 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> It starts with a description of each of us pre-birth in the "The
>> Palace of
>> >> the Child." Everything we needed was done for us there.  Food, air,
>> >> warmth, in a big water cushioned bed, with great sound insulation.
>> >>
>> >> Then we get pushed out into the loud cold world, having to cough out
>> >> liquid in order to take our own first breath.  Every aspect of this
>> birth
>> >> is traumatic, and TNH says it is called the "Original Fear."  At about
>> >> this same moment we realize we want to keep living.  TNH calls this
>> >> "Original Desire."
>> >>
>> >> I think this was all pre Freud.
>> >>
>> >> David Morris
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> www.innergroovemusic.com
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://posthistoricpress.blogspot.com/
>>
>
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