The ugly truth of science

[Kai Frederik Lorentzen]

 >> Math is betrayed in Vineland and Yashmeen gives it up in Against 
  the Day.
Why?<<

Perhaps the fact that Berkeley didn't accept Pynchon as a math student - 
we already talked about this ("Saure Trauben der Mathematik") - is 
relevant here.

Roger Mexico, though his war work is certainly not "Platonic", must be 
named as a 'positive' math character, since his statistics is 
anti-control in contrast to the control of Pointsman's behaviorism.

When Weed Atman appears on the scene we find him "preoccupied with the 
darker implications of a paper on group theory he'd just been reading" 
(VL, p. 206). What is the significance of group theory here? In the 
Pynchon Wiki I read: "In mathematics, group theory 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_%28mathematics%29> is, very roughly, 
the study of symmetry. The symmetries occurring most in Pynchon's novels 
are bilateral (binaries, doppelgangers) and triangular (love triangles). 
Also, Pynchon may be making a pun, since Weed is going from isolation to 
involvement in political groups." Yes, the metaphorical meaning was 
always clear to me. Is there more to say about the math?


On 18.06.2013 03:56, Markekohut wrote:
> OK, Kai, since nobody else has ( yet) I will plunge in.
>
> Mathematician==theoretic; abstract, Platonic ( so to speak).....With 
> Positive Eastern Spirituality overtones....
> He is also a Thanatoid...??....doesn't Pynchon characterize as full of 
> revenge ( in some way?)
> Fill in your other meanings to Thanatoid.
> Self-surprised Campus revolutionary leader....(some unwanted 
> charisma?) ....
> Betrayed by Frenesi..........
>
> Math is betrayed in Vineland and Yashmeen gives it up in Against  the 
> Day.
> Why?
>
> On Jun 17, 2013, at 6:12 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen 
> <lorentzen at hotmail.de <mailto:lorentzen at hotmail.de>> wrote:
>
>>
>> > ... the nature of Humanity.  Science is its subset.
>>
>> Well, your word "science" could be replaced by nearly any other word. 
>> Try 'law', 'politics', 'family', 'art', 'sport', 'economy', or 
>> 'education'. Claiming "the nature of (h)umanity" is seldom wrong but 
>> hardly ever helpful. As Joseph says: The debate is about the 
>> socio-historical evolution of concrete social systems (or 'forms', or 
>> 'figurations', or 'spheres'), here science. It's not about the human 
>> hardware.
>>
>> My suggestion to people who feel the need to defend science on this list:
>>
>> Show where Pynchon speaks in favor of science!
>>
>> Question: Why is /Vineland/'s Weed Atman a mathematician?
>>
>> http://kasmana.people.cofc.edu/MATHFICT/mfview.php?callnumber=mf591
>>
>>
>> On 17.06.2013 05:09, David Morris wrote:
>>> Your argument is with the nature of Humanity.  Science is its subset.
>>>
>>> Solve that, I dare you.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 16, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     The conversation is too polarized. I have the sense that what I
>>>     am actually saying is being turned into something far more
>>>     extreme than it really is. I don't think there is any evidence
>>>     Kai, myself or even the more extreme  aw posts are promoting a
>>>     disdain for science, and I'm fairly sure we all see that science
>>>     is a process with many benefits and great potential for the
>>>     human endeavor. But its evolution has yielded enormous power,
>>>     and in some ways that power is so dangerous as to potentially
>>>     nullify its benefits and even  life itself. That is a power that
>>>     has to be reckoned with. Humans have not evolved ethically  at
>>>     the same rate as science  and that is a discord that is a global
>>>     problem.  Science has become a godlike force and we are still
>>>     territorial primates with an inclination to link our territories
>>>     to beliefs. Unfortunately, what this means is that science has
>>>     become something of a modern religion and critical discussion is
>>>     not a dispassionate process.
>>>
>>>     The critique I am trying to put forth is about the ways,
>>>     psychological, social and technological science is historically
>>>     and currenty linked to the destructive abuse of power. This is
>>>     no more indicting all science or all scientists than it would be
>>>     to indict all teaching or all teachers  for all the bad stuff
>>>     that gets taught and what happens as a result, or indicting all
>>>     written and graphic communication systems  for its inherent
>>>     distortions of reality, broken treaties, the dishonest
>>>     accumulation of wealth. My intent  is a matter of thinking about
>>>     all these things in such a way as to know the potential dangers
>>>      of how we do all these things and be better able to avoid those
>>>     dangers.
>>>
>>>      JZ. Comparing anyone on the list with the
>>>     rightwing-xenophobic-fundamentalist-fascist Michelle Bachman is
>>>     not what I would call an astute or credible observation. Instead
>>>     of calling people anti-science, maybe it would be more
>>>     respectful to engage on the level of responding to the actual
>>>     words and ideas. How, for example have the descriptions of
>>>     science on the list been inaccurate?
>>>
>>>     What alice wellintown is saying about science seems to me to be
>>>     about showing the inherent psychological appeal of getting new
>>>     knowledge and extending one's power, that  it is not inherently
>>>     benign, and has a dark side. The issue is that science is a
>>>     human activity.
>>>
>>>     Perhaps something about the role of science in my own life and
>>>     family. I like science and talked about it with my adopted step
>>>     daughter and 2 birth children often while they were still home.
>>>     I don't think any of them would say I maligned science. My
>>>     oldest daughter  has become a director of science curriculum at
>>>     a large school district, my son, the youngest, is working  for a
>>>     silicon valley entrepreneur on a prototype of an electric work
>>>     truck, collaborating with Siemens and using Darpa developed
>>>     batteries . My other daughter just graduated from Smith with a
>>>     degree in environmental policy.  I continue to try to master the
>>>     practical science of food gardening and working with glass as an
>>>     artistic medium. Recently, along with literature, news and
>>>     commentary I have been inclined to read about permaculture,
>>>     mushrooms, soil science, global climate change, environmental
>>>     issues, and the science of hot glass. I teach art glass every
>>>     year and talk about surface tension, the random molecular
>>>     structure of the glass as opposed to the crystalline structure
>>>     of most minerals, the coefficient of expansion as a factor in
>>>     the compatibility of fusible glass, the practical use of
>>>     geometry in design for architectonic ornament and other things
>>>     that boil down to the science that is helpful to know for
>>>     joining art and glass.
>>>

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