smoke-puffs - definition and meaning

Mon May 20 06:08:36 CDT 2013

The only thing I was right about was Pynchon's precision. I say Mucho Maas Thanks, Reverend.

Sent from my iPad

On May 20, 2013, at 6:13 AM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:

> THAT looks just right to me....if worn on most sleeves, which we can assume, BINGO.
> 
> Looks like I was wrong.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On May 20, 2013, at 5:55 AM, "Rev'd Seventy-Six" <revd.76 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I always read it as military insignia connoting an ordnance division, i.e.:
>> http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/ImageProxy.ashx?n=1&t=150&id=13080
>> 
>> or:
>> http://www.usarmypatches.com/Collect/Ordnance/Ord%20Bde%20%20%2059-a%20.gif
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 10:43 PM, Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Well, Slothrop heard "Sounds of carousing, of voices distinctly unbalanced, come welling up, reverberating off of the concrete."  There was no mention of gunfire of any kind.  If there was gunfire, Slothrop probably would not want to go down there.  There was some gunfire later, when he was chased, but that was a different story.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Isn't the phrase the indication that shots, stuff has happened and this is the proof, residue, ongoing diss? I don't have my copy to check more of the scene but P's Impressionism about the scene is what I remember....
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On May 19, 2013, at 9:31 PM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Ordnance refers to all kinds of military "stuff"....take Morris's bombs as real not insignia....
>>>>> I see an image of soldiers with smoke surrounding.....the smoke of war....
>>>>> But I dunno....I just can't imagine any ' smoke puffs" that are metaphoric or symbol insignias
>>>>> That would work here....
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>> On May 19, 2013, at 6:28 PM, Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Right.  But if they were real, shots must have just been fired, a lot of them even, which does not seem to be the case here.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Maybe. But to me then they wouldn't be Ordnance smoke-puffs....
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 19, 2013, at 5:53 PM, Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It has just occurred to me that it could be the "beer fumes" from the beers they are holding, puffs of water vapour that looks like smoke.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for taking the time to respond. That certainly is an interesting argument.  And I don't pretend to understand Pynchon better than anybody here, or anywhere, for that matter.  That's why I was asking in the first place.  In any case, this further complicates things.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> So are you suggesting these are actual puffs of smoke from weapons discharge, or some metaphorical smoke-puffs acquired through the handling of ordnance?  Or something else entirely that I am not aware of?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Actually, bored from my work editing, I am taking a break to pile on despite the estimable opinions of others, including yourself. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think that thinking of so,etching involving insignias is what occurs to many--most--readers in this scene. It is the word " sleeve" perhaps...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> But then read it again and, maybe, yet again. Think of Pynchon's verbal precision, in all his work 
>>>>>>>>>> (Except, even I, great fanboy, will admit it flags  a bit in Against the Day) but especially think of the precision of every word in Gravity's  Rainbow. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Ask yourself, Why, why would Pynchon, with military and weapons use meanings to the wonderfully compressed phrase Ordnance smoke-puffs be vaguely---that is key here; you said yourself you could find nothing as symbol, especially over a couple armies that " smoke puffs
>>>>>>>>>> Might refer to symbolically. Pynchon, like Shakespeare---learned to be precise with every perspective and metaphor. 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> And I ask further, from someone who knows almost nothing about military insignia---purposely
>>>>>>>>>> Rejected that romanticising of war---( and I'm not even going to Wikipedia for this) ---but aren't they, one cannot help learning, full of bars, lines, angles, Predator birds like Eagles, stars, etc...
>>>>>>>>>> All of that angled linearity which Pynchon knows shows the narrowing of the curved, wavy, modulating, human folkways. such as natural boundaries, human-made paths and, in some natural way the curls of smoke? 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> anyway, I will bet there are almost no symbols on soldiers' uniforms much like " smoke-puffs""
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On May 19, 2013, at 3:50 AM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, seems clear to me that many/ most are all also the same kind of flickering smoke from military discharges....see esp My Early Life...shrapnel, etc...
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I think your logical concern that there are all kind of different insignia coupled with the impossibility of them all flickering, to me rules  out that meaning.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> So, I'll stop.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 19, 2013, at 1:40 AM, Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I did see those.  But it seems clear to me that Pychon is not talking about the same thing as the others.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> See some examples here...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: May 18, 2013, 9:24:03 PM EDT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: smoke-puffs - definition and meaning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wordnik.com/words/smoke-puffs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
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