9-11 box cutters 11 september utility knives

[rich]

9/11 in essence in my mind is a massive intelligence failure. conspiracies
abound because people cant believe we didnt connect the dots or when we did
we didnt share info or didn't deem it important enough. these bozos should
have been caught but they weren't.
I dont understand this 'I question the official narrative'--what narrative?
all those endless taps into each and every discrepancy or nuance of that
day and the days leading up to it. Life measured in such a detailed way
will always bring to the surface much that doesnt make sense or others
imbued with a significance important to the observer. an horrific event
heightens this to unimaginable levels.
I also just have to laugh about talk of knives and cowards. sure it takes
courage to do alot of things but maybe you will think twice when someone
cuts a loved one's throat in your presence and then ask yourself wow that
was courageous. is that how we are defining courage, now? guess that means
William Calley and Paul Blobel had lots of courage, too.

y'all (as is Pynchon) reacting to the media response and have forgotten the
event itself.
where the important questioning of narrative is Iraq not 9/11. you should
focus your moral outrage there.

rich


On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Maybe only the ringleaders on each plane knew they were suicide missions.
> Yeah, self-righteous murderous self-redemptive courage....
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 17, 2013, at 12:17 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > I worked as a construction electrician for 18 years, and a knife was one
> of our required hand tools. At first, I bought a three-blade pocket knife,
> but really only used one of the blades, so I switched to a single-blade.
> But this become dull quickly, and, on a co-worker's advice, I switched to a
> utility knife, and stayed with it for the rest of my 18-year career. The
> retractable blade cut through heavy 500MCM wire insulation like butter, and
> because spare blades could be stored in the handle (held together with a
> set-screw), I always had a sharp blade. Sure, there were always assholes
> who'd Crocodile Dundee me about my pathetic little knife - some of them had
> switchblades, or the actual knives they used to gut VC in Nam (they said).
> I'd joke that I didn't need a big phallic knife when I had my small
> clitoral triangular blade (always shocked some of the conservative Catholic
> family men with that kind of talk: "I thought you were a nice girl!").
> >
> > But it occurs to me, after reading Joseph's post, that this belittlement
> of the knife used (just a tiny box cutter) went hand in hand with the
> belittlement of the attackers collective manhood. These guys who
> commandeered giant planes and crashed them into buildings were "cowards."
> Bill Maher was actually fired from his Politically Incorrect show for
> saying that one thing these guys were not, was cowardly. Then there were
> the initial descriptions of Mohammed Atta as a wimpy little momma's boy who
> didn't/couldn't have girl friends. One really has to wonder why this sort
> of thing was dished out and happily swallowed by the gullible public. What
> part of our brash Western-influenced culture says that it's more honorable
> to be set-upon by a wimpy, cowardly girly-boy with a tiny knife? Isn't that
> called pussy-whipping. Why wouldn't we want to be brought down by the
> biggest, baddest bravest mo-fo out there? It's an odd public relations
> dilemma: if you refuse to imbue the enemy with any positive traits
> (strength, bravery, intelligence), then what are you left with? What 4th
> grader wants to admit they were beat up by a 1st grader?
> >
> > I agree with John Bailey that official stories aren't necessarily false
> by conspiracy, and that it was a tangle of competing interests - literary,
> political, psychological and economic that put together the Official Story.
> Actually, I found the Official Story of the first attack on the trade
> center much more troubling. It took them days to recover the four bodies
> from the wreckage, yet the very first thing they found was the rental-van's
> license, lying atop the wreckage like a gift card, which led them
> immediately to the perpetrators. Sounded a little too much like
> fore-knowledge in that case. Give us this day our daily conspiracy, I guess.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> >
> >>
> >> I will offer an alternate phrase that despite its seeming
> insignificance has troubled me. Box cutters. Before 11 september  I rarely
> heard  utility knives refereed to as box cutters and thought of that phrase
> as a kind of term used by people who don't regularly use hand tools and got
> a plastic knife to break down shipping boxes from Office Depot.. So I have
> wondered why have I never once heard them called what I and anyone I know
> who actually regularly uses these knives for utilitarian purposes calls
> them- which is utility knives. I have asked about 4-5 people what they
> think of when they hear the phrase box cutter and people describe either a
> standard utility knife or a small  plastic handled utility knife with break
> away blades, or a fold out steel knife. If you google the phrase those are
> the things you get. Hardware stores have always called them utility knives,
> but they are now sold on the internet as box cutters too.
> >>
> >> You don't kill passengers and flight attendants , then walk to the
> front of a plane  open the cockpit door and kill a pilot and copilot with a
> 1/2 inch break-away blade.  A standard utility knife which is called by
> some a box-cutter is a powerful, sharp, strong and potentially deadly tool,
> (much more that  a swiss army knife which I always kept in my backpack
>  when traveling before 9-11), because it has a large grip and close to 2
> inches of razor sharp steel blade.
> >>
> >> So as far as I can tell the use of the term box -cutter originated from
> calls of a stewardess but she and others also said knives. What bothers me
> is the standardization of the description of weapons which aren't really
> known in detail to the term box-cutters.  It feels indicative of mindless
> repetition rather than a journalistic curiosity and  an attempt to get a
> real, detailed and plausible picture of one of the most disturbing events
> in many decades.
> >>
> >> This is a tiny detail in a big picture that Is still very disputed and
> unclear. Does P really accept the mainstream account? Why does P throw in
> the rooftop story so weirdly reminiscent of Kennedy's assassination or the
> underground goings on at Montauk  if he does not give some credence to
> alternate explanations? Why does everyone in BE chump-out and quit their
> research if not sheer dread about very powerful and unscrupulous forces?
> What is the role of the murder in the story? Is it referring to something
> real?
> >>
> >> Because something real changed on 11 September 2001. We all know that.
>  But what actually happened?
> >>
> >> Why was Kissinger, the master of murderous coups and secret bombings,
> Bush's first choice for the inquiry.  Why did Building 7 collapse? Where
> was the Air Force? Is there really thermite recovered from the site? Where
> are the engines of the plane that hit the Pentagon?Here is a huge event
> which remains shrouded in real questions , but  which to look at
> skeptically is journalistic and media death. Yet many loved ones of victims
> are profoundly dissatisfied with the official inquiry. Why should we trust
> known liars and news organizations which reported incredibly spurious crap
> about WMD's to care deeply enough to truly answer the questions of the many
> sincere and personally involved, knowledgeable and credible skeptics
> including victims and first responders. Why not make the utmost effort to
> put to rest conspiracy theories that can only lead to bitterness and
> estrangement. And since when did America start thinking the thing to do
> after apprehending the  unarmed subject of a world-wide manhunt and center
> of a terrorist conspiracy,  is to shoot him and throw his  body into the
> Mediterranean?
> >>
> >> Our lives go on.  We go to whatever we call work, live with friends and
> family, have our own worries and dreams. But now it is one war after
> another and we  are told it is criminal to question  the "right " of our
> government to monitor everyone's communication even though they have no
> interest in hearing what we say to them openly. The constitution evaporates
> as quickly under one party as the other and the reason is  always 9-11, the
> biggest emergency call in human history just keeps ringing away  our taxes
> and rights..   We want to go back to normal, back to the Jack Benny story,
> back to home made take-out and Ben and Jerrys.  Am I so alone  in being
> troubled by these nagging questions?  I too am a neighbor of those killed.
> >>
> >> I am not convinced as a truther but am even less convinced by the
> official story.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20131118/d72940d9/attachment.html>