9-11 box cutters 11 september utility knives

[Fiona Shnapple]

Sure, we work with a Stencil we draw about ourselves, then conpire to
make plots. With little though and almost facts, and TV images burned
into their eyeballs and brain stuff...Maxine's boys give it a shot,
then March, Maxine,  Horst...all plotting conspiracy. Looking for
Reason. But there ain't none. There's just blood everywhere. But you
ain't got to let it bleed no more.

Let It Be.



On 11/18/13, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:
> RR> Life measured in such a detailed way will always bring to the surface
> much that doesnt make sense
>
> I vehemently agree. What makes people believe that it must be possible to
> reconstruct a 100% accurate, closed, consistent narrative of any but the
> simplest historical moment? (And in "historical" I include last week.)
>
> In practice, the effort to do so *always* requires the selective -- or
> tendentious -- exclusion of some dots that someone else will always insist
> *must* be connected. See, e.g., Fred Kaplan on JFK assassination theories:
>
> http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2013/11/john_f_kennedy_conspiracy_theories_debunked_why_the_magic_bullet_and_grassy.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:22 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 9/11 in essence in my mind is a massive intelligence failure.
>> conspiracies
>> abound because people cant believe we didnt connect the dots or when we
>> did
>> we didnt share info or didn't deem it important enough. these bozos
>> should
>> have been caught but they weren't.
>> I dont understand this 'I question the official narrative'--what
>> narrative? all those endless taps into each and every discrepancy or
>> nuance
>> of that day and the days leading up to it. Life measured in such a
>> detailed
>> way will always bring to the surface much that doesnt make sense or
>> others
>> imbued with a significance important to the observer. an horrific event
>> heightens this to unimaginable levels.
>> I also just have to laugh about talk of knives and cowards. sure it takes
>> courage to do alot of things but maybe you will think twice when someone
>> cuts a loved one's throat in your presence and then ask yourself wow that
>> was courageous. is that how we are defining courage, now? guess that
>> means
>> William Calley and Paul Blobel had lots of courage, too.
>>
>> y'all (as is Pynchon) reacting to the media response and have forgotten
>> the event itself.
>> where the important questioning of narrative is Iraq not 9/11. you should
>> focus your moral outrage there.
>>
>> rich
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Markekohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe only the ringleaders on each plane knew they were suicide
>>> missions.
>>> Yeah, self-righteous murderous self-redemptive courage....
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2013, at 12:17 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I worked as a construction electrician for 18 years, and a knife was
>>> one of our required hand tools. At first, I bought a three-blade pocket
>>> knife, but really only used one of the blades, so I switched to a
>>> single-blade. But this become dull quickly, and, on a co-worker's advice,
>>> I
>>> switched to a utility knife, and stayed with it for the rest of my
>>> 18-year
>>> career. The retractable blade cut through heavy 500MCM wire insulation
>>> like
>>> butter, and because spare blades could be stored in the handle (held
>>> together with a set-screw), I always had a sharp blade. Sure, there were
>>> always assholes who'd Crocodile Dundee me about my pathetic little knife
>>> -
>>> some of them had switchblades, or the actual knives they used to gut VC
>>> in
>>> Nam (they said). I'd joke that I didn't need a big phallic knife when I
>>> had
>>> my small clitoral triangular blade (always shocked some of the
>>> conservative
>>> Catholic family men with that kind of talk: "I thought you were a nice
>>> girl!").
>>> >
>>> > But it occurs to me, after reading Joseph's post, that this
>>> belittlement of the knife used (just a tiny box cutter) went hand in
>>> hand
>>> with the belittlement of the attackers collective manhood. These guys
>>> who
>>> commandeered giant planes and crashed them into buildings were
>>> "cowards."
>>> Bill Maher was actually fired from his Politically Incorrect show for
>>> saying that one thing these guys were not, was cowardly. Then there were
>>> the initial descriptions of Mohammed Atta as a wimpy little momma's boy
>>> who
>>> didn't/couldn't have girl friends. One really has to wonder why this
>>> sort
>>> of thing was dished out and happily swallowed by the gullible public.
>>> What
>>> part of our brash Western-influenced culture says that it's more
>>> honorable
>>> to be set-upon by a wimpy, cowardly girly-boy with a tiny knife? Isn't
>>> that
>>> called pussy-whipping. Why wouldn't we want to be brought down by the
>>> biggest, baddest bravest mo-fo out there? It's an odd public relations
>>> dilemma: if you refuse to imbue the enemy with any positive traits
>>> (strength, bravery, intelligence), then what are you left with? What 4th
>>> grader wants to admit they were beat up by a 1st grader?
>>> >
>>> > I agree with John Bailey that official stories aren't necessarily
>>> > false
>>> by conspiracy, and that it was a tangle of competing interests -
>>> literary,
>>> political, psychological and economic that put together the Official
>>> Story.
>>> Actually, I found the Official Story of the first attack on the trade
>>> center much more troubling. It took them days to recover the four bodies
>>> from the wreckage, yet the very first thing they found was the
>>> rental-van's
>>> license, lying atop the wreckage like a gift card, which led them
>>> immediately to the perpetrators. Sounded a little too much like
>>> fore-knowledge in that case. Give us this day our daily conspiracy, I
>>> guess.
>>> >
>>> > Laura
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> I will offer an alternate phrase that despite its seeming
>>> insignificance has troubled me. Box cutters. Before 11 september  I
>>> rarely
>>> heard  utility knives refereed to as box cutters and thought of that
>>> phrase
>>> as a kind of term used by people who don't regularly use hand tools and
>>> got
>>> a plastic knife to break down shipping boxes from Office Depot.. So I
>>> have
>>> wondered why have I never once heard them called what I and anyone I
>>> know
>>> who actually regularly uses these knives for utilitarian purposes calls
>>> them- which is utility knives. I have asked about 4-5 people what they
>>> think of when they hear the phrase box cutter and people describe either
>>> a
>>> standard utility knife or a small  plastic handled utility knife with
>>> break
>>> away blades, or a fold out steel knife. If you google the phrase those
>>> are
>>> the things you get. Hardware stores have always called them utility
>>> knives,
>>> but they are now sold on the internet as box cutters too.
>>> >>
>>> >> You don't kill passengers and flight attendants , then walk to the
>>> front of a plane  open the cockpit door and kill a pilot and copilot with
>>> a
>>> 1/2 inch break-away blade.  A standard utility knife which is called by
>>> some a box-cutter is a powerful, sharp, strong and potentially deadly
>>> tool,
>>> (much more that  a swiss army knife which I always kept in my backpack
>>>  when traveling before 9-11), because it has a large grip and close to 2
>>> inches of razor sharp steel blade.
>>> >>
>>> >> So as far as I can tell the use of the term box -cutter originated
>>> from calls of a stewardess but she and others also said knives. What
>>> bothers me is the standardization of the description of weapons which
>>> aren't really known in detail to the term box-cutters.  It feels
>>> indicative
>>> of mindless repetition rather than a journalistic curiosity and  an
>>> attempt
>>> to get a real, detailed and plausible picture of one of the most
>>> disturbing
>>> events in many decades.
>>> >>
>>> >> This is a tiny detail in a big picture that Is still very disputed
>>> >> and
>>> unclear. Does P really accept the mainstream account? Why does P throw
>>> in
>>> the rooftop story so weirdly reminiscent of Kennedy's assassination or
>>> the
>>> underground goings on at Montauk  if he does not give some credence to
>>> alternate explanations? Why does everyone in BE chump-out and quit their
>>> research if not sheer dread about very powerful and unscrupulous forces?
>>> What is the role of the murder in the story? Is it referring to
>>> something
>>> real?
>>> >>
>>> >> Because something real changed on 11 September 2001. We all know
>>> >> that.
>>>  But what actually happened?
>>> >>
>>> >> Why was Kissinger, the master of murderous coups and secret bombings,
>>> Bush's first choice for the inquiry.  Why did Building 7 collapse? Where
>>> was the Air Force? Is there really thermite recovered from the site?
>>> Where
>>> are the engines of the plane that hit the Pentagon?Here is a huge event
>>> which remains shrouded in real questions , but  which to look at
>>> skeptically is journalistic and media death. Yet many loved ones of
>>> victims
>>> are profoundly dissatisfied with the official inquiry. Why should we
>>> trust
>>> known liars and news organizations which reported incredibly spurious
>>> crap
>>> about WMD's to care deeply enough to truly answer the questions of the
>>> many
>>> sincere and personally involved, knowledgeable and credible skeptics
>>> including victims and first responders. Why not make the utmost effort
>>> to
>>> put to rest conspiracy theories that can only lead to bitterness and
>>> estrangement. And since when did America start thinking the thing to do
>>> after apprehending the  unarmed subject of a world-wide manhunt and
>>> center
>>> of a terrorist conspiracy,  is to shoot him and throw his  body into the
>>> Mediterranean?
>>> >>
>>> >> Our lives go on.  We go to whatever we call work, live with friends
>>> and family, have our own worries and dreams. But now it is one war after
>>> another and we  are told it is criminal to question  the "right " of our
>>> government to monitor everyone's communication even though they have no
>>> interest in hearing what we say to them openly. The constitution
>>> evaporates
>>> as quickly under one party as the other and the reason is  always 9-11,
>>> the
>>> biggest emergency call in human history just keeps ringing away  our
>>> taxes
>>> and rights..   We want to go back to normal, back to the Jack Benny
>>> story,
>>> back to home made take-out and Ben and Jerrys.  Am I so alone  in being
>>> troubled by these nagging questions?  I too am a neighbor of those
>>> killed.
>>> >>
>>> >> I am not convinced as a truther but am even less convinced by the
>>> official story.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -
>>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> > -
>>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>
>>
>>
>
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l