9-11 box cutters 11 september utility knives

malignd at aol.com malignd at aol.com
Fri Nov 22 18:47:05 CST 2013


I'm sorry?  If you don't know what happened, how do you know what was covered up or how much (far too much)?


I don't know what happened on 9-11 but the 
official commission covered up far too much of what happened and what could be 
known. 





-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
To: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Fri, Nov 22, 2013 9:51 am
Subject: Re: 9-11 box cutters 11 september utility knives


I don't hunt for conspiracy theories but history fascinates me .   I try to 
discriminate between truth and deception, bullies and peacemakers, friends and 
predators.   Real conspiracies and violence are both the stuff of history and of 
personal experience, so when people join forces to hurt someone I take it 
seriously.  From what I can see the more a nation or a person tolerates abuse 
and lies the more it passes on a legacy of the same and the craziness that goes 
with it.  Some are given no choice when it comes to abuse and suffering and 
because of that I don't really believe that human happiness is improved by 
ignoring injustice or  stifling troubling information. Neither do I think it 
wise to be consumed by it. I am not smart or enlightened enough to know the 
proper balance .  Perhaps someone is. I really do  like jokes as a tool to 
defuse nonsense  and Pynchon is a writer who makes me laugh out loud even when 
I'm alone. And I certainly laugh at myself, but not everything in this world 
seems funny and too much is like too much sugar.
 Most of my time I make  and restore glass art and grow vegetables and enjoy my 
family and friends.  I watch no TV and so also have time to read, think and 
write. This often causes trouble. I don't know what happened on 9-11 but the 
official commission covered up far too much of what happened and what could be 
known.  One chairman walked out and said the same.  The questions that remained 
unanswered are not frivolous but the basics of understanding a crime involving 4 
planes 4 buildings and close to 3000 victims.   





On Nov 21, 2013, at 6:30 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> <kelber at mindspring.com> 
wrote:

> Joseph, though we often, or even usually agree on many political issues, we 
part company here. One could parade around all kinds of "experts" demanding 
answers on any number of silly topics: prove that the pyramids weren't built by 
extraterrestrials; why doesn't Buzz Aldrin take a public lie detector test, if 
he keeps on insisting he went to the "moon." And on and on. I believe in 
questioning authority, but the questions have to be based on a meaningful line 
of inquiry. Suppose some voice came out of the sky and said, "Yes. The buildings 
were mined with explosives. The planes were projected on the sky by Hollywood 
SFX. Bush and Cheney planned the whole thing with the Israelis and the Saudis 
and the Trade Center Deli (which needed the insurance money to remodel). Now you 
know!" So what do you do with that info? Rant? Brood? Blog? No, it fizzles into  
nothingness, because it leads to no ideology other than craziness, and no path 
of action other than the hunt for the next conspiracy theory.
> 
> Laura
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Joseph Tracy 
> Sent: Nov 21, 2013 5:53 PM 
> To: P-list List 
> Subject: Re: 9-11 box cutters 11 september utility knives 
> 
> http://patriotsquestion911.com/
> 
> This is one page of the site 911truth.org. It is a long list of  220 mostly 
Military  officers involved in intelligence, aeronautics and some other fields. 
>From this page you can access comments and credentials of Pilots, engineers, 
architects, professors, etc. . This is not a collection of wack jobs.   Some are 
simply skeptics of the official (-11 commission report and want a better job of 
investigation, and many are convinced that the official story is wrong and that 
an inside job is indicated.
> 
> Below is the first entry on that list. I looked through the whole list  today 
pretty closely and with maybe 3 exceptions found none who can be called flaky.
> 
> 
> Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General 
of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984, commanding 15,000 
intelligence and security personnel.  Also commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic 
Research and Development Command and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School and 
Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical 
Intelligence. 32-year Army career.
> 
> Member, Military Intelligence Hall of Fame.
> 	•	Video interview 6/28/09: 
> 
> General Stubblebine: I am Major General 
Albert Stubblebine. I am retired Army Major-General. In my last assignment -- my 
last command -- I was responsible for all of the Army's strategic intelligence 
forces around the world. I had responsibility for the Signals Intelligence, 
Photo Intelligence, Counter Intelligence, Human Intelligence. They all belonged 
to me, in my last assignment. … 
> 
> I was supposed to find out what the enemy 
was doing, before the enemy did it so that we could take action against the 
enemy. That's Intelligence, OK, before the fact. So, we always -- always -- rely 
not on a single piece of data, before we make a statement, but on multiple and 
the more pieces of data that you have that correlate, the better you know 
exactly what is going on. … 
> 
> So I have had a lot of experience looking at 
photographs. I have looked at many, many different kinds of photographs, from 
many, many different platforms on many, many different countries, around the 
world. 
> 
> Interviewer: OK. So on September the 11th, in 2001, what hit the 
Pentagon? 
> 
> General Stubblebine:  I don't know exactly what hit it, but I do 
know, from the photographs that I have analyzed and looked at very, very 
carefully, it was not an airplane. 
> 
> Interviewer:  What made you believe 
that? 
> 
> General Stubblebine:  Well, for one thing, if you look at the hole 
that was made in the Pentagon, the nose penetrated far enough so that there 
should have been wing marks on the walls of the Pentagon. I have been unable to 
find those wing marks. So where were they? Did this vessel -- vehicle, or 
whatever it was -- have wings? Apparently not, because if it had had wings, they 
would have made marks on the side of the Pentagon. 
> 
> One person counteracted 
my theory, and said, "Oh, you've got it all wrong. And the reason that it's 
wrong is that as the airplane came across, one wing tipped down and hit the 
ground and broke off." I said, "Fine, that's possible, one wing could have 
broken off." But if I understand airplanes correctly, most airplanes have two 
wings. I haven't met an airplane with only one wing. So where was the mark for 
the second wing? OK, one broke off -- there should have been a mark for the 
second wing. I could not find that in any of the photographs that I've analyzed. 
Now I've been very careful to not say what went in there. Why? Because you don't 
have that evidence. … 
> 
> I did -- I've never believed that it was an airplane 
since I've looked at the photographs. Up until the time I looked at the 
photographs, I accepted what was being said. After I looked at it -- NO WAY! … 

> 
> We pride ourselves with the "free press." I do not believe the "free 
press" is free any more. It's very expensive. It's very expensive. And the press 
is saying what they have been told to say about this. 
> 
> Now, do I have proof 
of that? No. But I believe that what is being -- what certainly the -- the 
stories that were told -- all about 9/11 were false. I mean, you take a look at 
the buildings falling down. They didn't fall down because airplanes hit them. 
They fell down because of explosives went off inside. Demolition. Look at 
Building 7, for God's sake. It didn't fall down to its side. It didn't fall to 
this direction or that direction; just like the two Towers. … 
> 
> When you 
look at the temperatures that you can create with fuel in a gas tank or a fuel 
tank of an airplane, and then you investigate the amount of heat that would be 
required to melt -- to melt -- the superstructure of the buildings that came 
tumbling down, when you put all of that together, the one thing that shows; It 
does not match the facts. What is it they do not want the public to know? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daNr_TrBw6E
>>> 	•	Video documentary One Nation Under Siege 7/11/06: "One of my experiences in 
the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific 
and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War.  I measured pieces of Soviet 
equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon 
and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the 
Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the 
Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" http://www.undersiegemovie.com
>>> 	•	Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see 
Colonel Nelson, Commander Muga, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Lt. Col. Latas, Major 
Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, Capt. Davis, Barbara Honegger, April Gallop, Colonel 
Bunel, and Steve DeChiaro.
>>> 	•	Bio: http://web.archive.org
> 
> - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l

-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l

 
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