Mendelson's View of P's 2ble Vision

Mon Oct 7 15:19:12 CDT 2013

Laura,

You did a good-enough job on the passage yourself. Sports, fathers w sons especially,
is a lot of America. Maybe, especially, boys of that age?  It leads to what it leads to. Intemperate language and some kind of bonding. 
 (Take it from a non-sports guy. I will always believe one of my fatherly
good deeds in life was to let my son watch them as he wanted.  And let him talk with freinds of mine
who could, and play (although he was about as athletic as I am). 
The other novels have similar moments, just not about football. 
Since I am even anti-football, it does not surprise me that the boys fight and Horst is the kind of dad
who won't even call. Football is violent Social Darwinism metaphorically, emphasis on violence imho. 

From the time of IV, football has become the #1 US sport....there, P's basketball love of the Lakers
was used....you will remember that the narrator speaks of a "pick", to be protective of her 
sons when Maxine turns the corner in Chap 1. A basketball metaphor.

I saw that 'boring' paragraph as I see "boring' descriptions of a room or buildings in a 19th Century novel---
or in Franzen, say: simple details that, missing, would make that paragraph abstract, telling not showing, so to speak. 
I can follow it and then forget it (except as about them there guys) 
Since I am even anti-football, violent social Darwinism in my  opinion, it does not surprise me that the boys
fight and that Horst doesn't even call. Football ain't good manners. 

I will point more when I am hosting, although I don't think those against the prose will find any praise 
believeable. Very hard to annotate style and convince. Not like finding a real but hidden meaning. 
 (but I recently read some of a book that tried somewhat. Sutherland's How to Read a Novel) 

________________________________
 From: "kelber at mindspring.com" <kelber at mindspring.com>
To: pynchon-l at waste.org 
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Mendelson's View of P's 2ble Vision

Pynchon using football as a metaphor? That's the death knell, as far as I'm concerned.

LK

-----Original Message----- 
>From: David Robson 
>Sent: Oct 7, 2013 12:22 PM 
>To: " " 
>Cc: " " 
>Subject: Re: Mendelson's View of P's 2ble Vision 
>
>
>That passage, while not incredibly illuminating, is not simply a throwaway. Old v. new seems to be a theme in the book, and that passage seems to exemplify that thread. Peyton Manning was part of a new generation of QB's, Testaverde was much older, of a different ilk, past his prime, etc. Vinny was the #1 pick in 1988, Manning #1 in 1998. Testaverde's also a NY guy, born in Brooklyn.
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>Maybe Testaverde was the bleeding edge type of QB that Peyton would end up being the cutting edge version of? Both won the Heisman trophy in college, but Testaverde didn't win anything significant in the pros. He does hold the record for most losses though.
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>On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:59 AM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>Can you point to any specific passages, Mark? There were occasional bright spots, but too few to justify the slog through stuff like this: 
>>
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>>"The spread on the Jets-Indianapolis game Sunday is 2 points.Horst, regionally loyal as always, bets Ziggy and Otis a pizza that the Colts will win, which in fact they do in a 21-point walkover. Peyton Manning can do no wrong, Vinny Testaverde is a little less consistent, managing in the last five minutes for example to fumble on the Colts' 2-yard line to a defensive end who then proceeds to run the ball 98 yards to a touchdown, as Testaverde alone chases him up the field while the rest of the Jets look on, and Ziggy and Otis lapse into intemperate language their father doesn't see how he can call them out for." 
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>>OK, he's starting off the "9-11" chapter. He wants to contrast the mundanity of everyday life with what's about to follow (which he can't bring himself to write about - "Bad turns to worse.") He flirts with the idea that Horst, who we know works at the Trade Center, is bonding tragically with his sons for the last time (Horst survives, not even bothering to call home). Well, what an incredible literary device! Who but Pynchon could be this clever? What other purpose does this tedious passage serve? Acute social observation? Satire of men bonding over sports? Enlighten me, because I have no idea. 
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>>Pynchon has always had satire in his books, but I've never considered him a satirical writer. It's not his strong point, and if that's all he had to offer, I don't think we'd be here ranting and raving. The satire in this book is so painfully dated (like rehashes of All In the Family) and unfunny, it certainly isn't enough to carry the book. There's a lot of terrific satire about NYC (Bonfire of the Vanities) and pop culture (The Simpsons). Pynchon's is tepid and doesn't reward us with any fresh insights. 
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>>Laura
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>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>From: Markekohut  
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>>>I also think there is some typically very fine writing, in some witty sentences, some usually short scenes and as social observation at the usu paragraph level...Pynchon did still write it. 
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>>-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l 
> 
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l 
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