Targets? Goals? Motive? Strategy?

[Joseph Tracy]

Something like that. BTW would someone please disabuse me of my "conspiracy theories" , or at least list them so I can keep track. 
On Sep 4, 2013, at 11:34 AM, Monte Davis wrote:

> Yep – this. The bounds of Very Serious Discourse are narrow, if you have an interest in remaining a VSDer instead of being labeled a radical, irreponsible wild man like Howard Dean – I mean, he RAISED his VOICE at a campaign victory rally!!!
>  
> That passive, mostly tacit, “don’t rock the boat” consensus is much more powerful than all of Joseph’s posited active conspiracies put together.     
>  
> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] On Behalf Of kelber at mindspring.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 9:38 AM
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Subject: Re: Targets? Goals? Motive? Strategy?
>  
> One person's conspiracy rant is another person's impassioned argument. Joseph didn't provide a motive, but he provided an ideological slant, which supersedes a narrow motive. What is Obama's ideology? Pro-corporate, and of the mindset held by every president of the US since, say, the Spanish-American War, that the US must expand it's hegemony (over land, oil -- the premise has evolved over time) or perish. Bombing Syria to send a message to Iran (or as a possible entrance strategy into war with Iran) makes perfect sense in that context. 
>  
> I don't consider Obama the epitome of evil (and, for the record, I didn't consider Bush the epitome of evil either). I think, within the limits of this standard-issue (for presidents) ideology, he genuinely believes he's doing what's right for America - safeguarding our foothold in the oil-rich Middle East, without which our economy, as currently designed, would collapse. Protecting corporate profits and keeping their taxes low, lest they abandon America (which they're doing anyway), leaving us to become a less-than-world-class nation of dirt farmers, co-ops and mom-and-pop shops. If he didn't have this ideology, MSNBC (General Electric, Microsoft -owned network) and the various power-brokers wouldn't have supported him. They'd have found a sexual secret (John Edwards), or, failing that, say he yelled too loud (Howard Dean).
>  
> Laura
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: David Morris 
> 
> 
> First off, you have yet to provide any motive for Obama.  What does he want, and how do his actions work toward his goals?
>  
> You have made no arguments.  I don't think you have any.  You have only endless and groundless accusations of ill will and bad faith.
>  
> David Morris
> 
> On Tuesday, September 3, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> Fist off, your notion that Obama doesn't want to do this is the most absurd and laughably wrong idea on the table.
> 
> What makes a list of war crimes ranting? Anyway, argue with Fisk since you refuse to respond to my arguments with any thing even approximating reason.
> 
> 
> On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:09 PM, David Morris wrote:
> 
> > If Iran is the real target...
> >
> > ...then please elaborate on THAT!
> >
> > All you have offered for "debate" are ranting lists of past US duplicities, and full-faith surety than no good is afoot.
> > And, like Alice, you are prodigious.
> >
> > A good conspiracy demands a secret plan of cunning and logic.  Boogetyman rattle dances won't suffice.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > Former Iranian President Slams Syria for Gassing own People: Sign of deep Divisions in Tehran
> >
> > http://www.juancole.com/2013/09/president-gassing-divisions.htm
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, September 3, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> >
> > Robert Fisk and others propose that Iran is the real target.
> >
> > http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iran-not-syria-is-the-wests-real-target-8789506.html
> >
> > On Sep 3, 2013, at 10:25 AM, David Morris wrote:
> > You have yet to posit motive for the US.  Do you think Obama wants to get involved in that mess?  If so, why?
>