Targets? Goals? Motive? Strategy?

[Joseph Tracy]

I don't see how this explains why Obama presses so hard to do  what you say he does not want to do. The red line did not include a threat of bombing and there are other actions possible like an international criminal court action.

As far as a thorough analysis of the possible motives driving this plan I have many thoughts but it really gets down to weakening Iran and any alliance that strengthens them, thus keeping them from being a major player as the last intact middle class educated society in the region who are not under our control.  If the Shia government of Iraq, The Shia Hezbollah of Lebanon who are aiding Assad, The Shia sympathetic Syria ( the rebels are mostly the majority Sunni Syrians) were to emerge intact and united for any length of time they could begin to sell oil in an alternative currency. United with the BRIC countries this could be big trouble for the US economic and military dominance. 

For this reason we have large bases in Iraq, an army in Afghanistan, and are imposing harsh sanctions on Iran (See latest Harper's).

Mostly it all looks like classic divide and not so much conquer as maintain economic and military control of.

There are other factors, including the powerful political role of Israel and AIPAC, sending messages about who can and can't use military might, distracting from domestic troubles. All this dovetails comfortably with the ever expanding power  of  a corporate and financial sector global elite who poison waters, kill troublemakers and dump toxic shit with impunity .


On Sep 4, 2013, at 5:59 PM, David Morris wrote:

> Your point about past lies leading to war is undisputed, but cannot be applied in this case w/o evidence.  And those sins are not new revelations.  The whole world knows them already.  That's why Obama's all alone right now.
Alone with  the Prime minister of England, President of France, Israel, AIPAC, McCain and Boehner and quite a few others.
>  Duh.
> 
> The fact that Obama has been reluctant to supply the Syrian rebels with any arms is well documented (and evidence of his wisdom).   Syria is a quagmire that Obama isn't eager to get stuck in.  Only fools like McCain are eager to take sides there.  Obama painted himself into a red line corner.  Maybe he'll find an escape hatch.
> 
> I have not attacked you, nor engaged in ad hominem.  Please point to a specific if you disagree.
> 
> Don't point me toward 3rd parties to answer my asking you to delineate your take on Obama's goals and strategies in this specific case.  Laura's saying your framing Obama as a Corporatist relieves you of clarifying your accusations with specifics is bullshit, IMHO.  But at least she admits you have no argument other than a general "Corporatist" one.
> 
> I have not called you a bag of wind, yet.
> 
> David Morris
> 
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> My first point is that both statements about motive and the particular reasons for military action presented before a war have frequently been lies. My second is that Obama has also lied frequently about what his administration does and why. The geo-political strategies of the US have not been about human rights or democracy, and this preparation to bomb Syria is no different.
> 
> Your attacks on me, increasingly ad hominem, look like a diversion from your own accountability for the now clearly nutty idea that Obama doesn't want to do this. Do you intend to explain that or not?
> 
> I give lists because I appear to live in a culture where everyone seems to forget what happened last week and the fact that what happened before  and the overall pattern of those events is often a good way to understand what is happening today. When the patterns of US foreign policy change, I will be the first to notice and be very happy to see it.
> 
> If you really have a hard time seeing the targets, goals and strategies of US foreign policy maybe you should read some books from those not aligned with the mainstream media and the POV that have generated and justified those policies.
> Chris Hedges
> Naomi Klein
> Chalmers Johnson
> David Korten
> are some writers I respect
> 
> 
> On Sep 4, 2013, at 8:39 AM, David Morris wrote:
> 
> > First off, you have yet to provide any motive for Obama.  What does he want, and how do his actions work toward his goals?
> >
> > You have made no arguments.  I don't think you have any.  You have only endless and groundless accusations of ill will and bad faith.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Tuesday, September 3, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> > Fist off, your notion that Obama doesn't want to do this is the most absurd and laughably wrong idea on the table.
> >
> > What makes a list of war crimes ranting? Anyway, argue with Fisk since you refuse to respond to my arguments with any thing even approximating reason.
> >
> >
> > On Sep 3, 2013, at 8:09 PM, David Morris wrote:
> >
> > > If Iran is the real target...
> > >
> > > ...then please elaborate on THAT!
> > >
> > > All you have offered for "debate" are ranting lists of past US duplicities, and full-faith surety than no good is afoot.
> > > And, like Alice, you are prodigious.
> > >
> > > A good conspiracy demands a secret plan of cunning and logic.  Boogetyman rattle dances won't suffice.
> > >
> > > David Morris
> > >
> > > Former Iranian President Slams Syria for Gassing own People: Sign of deep Divisions in Tehran
> > >
> > > http://www.juancole.com/2013/09/president-gassing-divisions.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, September 3, 2013, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> > >
> > > Robert Fisk and others propose that Iran is the real target.
> > >
> > > http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iran-not-syria-is-the-wests-real-target-8789506.html
> > >
> > > On Sep 3, 2013, at 10:25 AM, David Morris wrote:
> > > You have yet to posit motive for the US.  Do you think Obama wants to get involved in that mess?  If so, why?
> >
>