Why not do a group read of THE great American novel? Moby-Dick?

Sun Apr 13 11:34:16 CDT 2014

Yeah, no shortage of books to read, films to watch....we might add
Melville's C-M to the list.

If you really want to understand the heart of darkness that defines
American society, it is necessary to read Herman Melville. While
Melville has the reputation of being a combination yarn-spinner and
serious novelist, he is above all a profound social critic who
sympathized with the downtrodden in American society. In his final
novel, "The Confidence Man," there are several chapters that deal with
the "Metaphysic of Indian-Hating" that, as far as I know, are the
first in American literature that attack the prevailing
exterminationist policy.

http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/culture/confidence_man.htm

On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Speaking of great books, The Public Burning is one. So many books, so little time...
>
>
> Www.innergroovemusic.com
>
>> On Apr 13, 2014, at 11:53 AM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm also definitely up for a group read this summer, completely at peace with the idea that it will fizzle to nothing by early fall.
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: Keith Davis
>>
>> Sent: Apr 13, 2014 12:50 AM
>>
>> To: Michael Bailey
>>
>> Cc: P-list
>>
>> Subject: Re: Re: Why not do a group read of THE great American novel? Moby-Dick?
>>
>>
>>
>> A summertime GR (pun-ish) might be a good time had by some, including me. Since I didn't get to do BE, I'd vote for that, or Melville, or M & D, or any of a long list....
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 13, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Michael Bailey <mikebailey at gmx.us> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  You make a good point!
>>
>>
>>
>> That part about fast fish and loose fish isn't so much about the america that could've been as about the law of having & holding - Mr Dick maybe represents that wonderful america, turtle island, this huge intelligent being that was minding its own business - colonizing krill, if you will - till Ahab came along. Oh yeah
>>
>>
>> And with his harpoon
>>
>> Pricked Moby-Dick - Owey! O weh!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>    Great questions and comments. Yeah, hard to keep folks engaged. But
>>
>>    thee has been talk of reading M-D here for years so...
>>
>>
>>
>>    Yeah, we would certainly take on the American novel question. M-D
>>
>>    doesn't go west across the continent sized nation, cutting it open,
>>
>>    exposing its buried voices, it doesn't race through the dust to the
>>
>>    grapes of wrathful California, it doesn't even take a road less
>>
>>    traveled or go into the woods to suck deeper from the bone marrow of
>>
>>    land. Most of the action takes place far from America, on ships,
>>
>>    boats, islands, though it does begin, as Melville's life begins, in
>>
>>    NYC, it quickly ships off with an international crew, islanders
>>
>>    mostly, and with one noted exception, none of the crew return to
>>
>>    America. But that one voice is American, it does return to America and
>>
>>    the yarn Ishmael spins is American, is told from an American Point of
>>
>>    View, and is about America, albeit, about a subjunctive America, one
>>
>>    that might have been, one that had promise but lost its way. So, in
>>
>>    theme, the book is most Pynchonian or Pynchon's are Melvillean. And
>>
>>    Ahab, the tragic captain has much to say about how America has
>>
>>    organized its sick crew of of islanders and chased whiteness and oil.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>    On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 7:55 AM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why is Moby-Dick a Great American Novel? Honest question. I've never
>>
>>> understood it as a novel that grapples with the Americanness of
>>
>>> America the way so many other novels try to. The way M&D does, or so
>>
>>> many of the others you list do. Moby-D is a frickin' GREAT novel
>>
>>> written by an American. If I were one for leaderboards, I'd call it
>>
>>> one of the greatest books ever written. But it's about the human
>>
>>> condition as a crisis between epistemologies and ontologies, not what
>>
>>> it means to be American, right? But, not being an American, I may be
>>
>>> missing something.
>>
>>
>>> And while I'd love a group read, we got about a quarter of the way
>>
>>> through the last novel written by the feller we're all subscribed here
>>
>>> for. The IV read at least managed to limp across the finish line; the
>>
>>> AtD was a long march that lost many good soldiers by the way. None of
>>
>>> this is a reflection on the books, just on the world of digital
>>
>>> disengagement in which the Pynchon List is a Web 1.0 relic. We've been
>>
>>> offered too many mindless pleasures to engage in the kind of deep and
>>
>>> ongoing group read these volumes merit.
>>
>>
>>> Prove me wrong, kids, prove me wrong.
>>
>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 9:36 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Traditionally, though, the typical GAN candidate requires heft, range,
>>
>>>> verisimilitude, and--lest we forget--popularity. While beautifully
>>
>>>> written and constructed, both William Gaddis's demanding The
>>
>>>> Recognitions and Peter Matthiessen's Faulknerian Shadow Country have
>>
>>>> failed to drum up a widespread readership. Thomas Pynchon's Mason &
>>
>>>> Dixon is, by most measures, a better attempt at a GAN than Gravity's
>>
>>>> Rainbow, but the latter boasts a hundred times as many fans.
>>
>>>> Similarly, works on the margin, no matter how fine or insightful about
>>
>>>> American life, seldom make the grade. One could argue strong cases for
>>
>>>> the GANship of John Crowley's Little, Big; John Sladek's Roderick, or,
>>
>>>> The Education of a Young Machine; Thomas Berger's Little Big Man; or,
>>
>>>> with just a slight stretch, Raymond Chandler's Farewell, My
>>
>>>> Lovely--but, even now, they all remain tainted with the dread word
>>
>>>> "genre." Yet if Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind can be proposed
>>
>>>> for GAN honors, why not Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged? Not that I'm doing
>>
>>>> so, by the way.
>>
>>
>>>> http://www.vqronline.org/big-read-can-single-book-sum-nation
>>
>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 7:35 AM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Only problem is with the idea of the great American novel, a concept
>>
>>>>> that has, if nothing else, made for pulp and grist to/for/from the
>>
>>>>> mill, but it's difficult to dismiss Melville's great white whale as
>>
>>>>> candidate, and for Pynchon fans, in the world of great books,
>>
>>>>> Moby-Dick or The Whale is a great influence. The common whiteness
>>
>>>>> theme alone needs further development, and, as Melville's monstrosity
>>
>>>>> gained critical mass when the excesses of market capitalism capsized
>>
>>>>> the nation and the world's economy, it's seem a revisiting Melville
>>
>>>>> now makes much ado of something, though what that something is has yet
>>
>>>>> to be defined, though some will name it and paint it in clear shades
>>
>>>>> of blackness, it seems so like the mysterious whale itself that
>>
>>>>> smashes down on the masts of industry and greed, then suck all down in
>>
>>>>> a Vortex to the bottomless perdition where God's foot weaves the
>>
>>>>> tapestry, the mantle of Varo's Earth.
>>
>>>> -
>>
>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>
>>    -
>>
>>    Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.innergroovemusic.com
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l