True Detective plagiarized?

[kelber at mindspring.com]

The WSJ article was discussed extensively by Mike Davis in his original article accusing Pizzolatto of plagiarism.

LK

-----Original Message-----

From: Jon Lebkowsky 

Sent: Aug 7, 2014 11:17 AM

To: kelber at mindspring.com

Cc: Pynchon-L 

Subject: Re: True Detective plagiarized?



"if he had just fucking mentioned Ligotti in his written materials and subsequent interviews"


I guess you missed this link in the Slate article, so I'm calling it out here:

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014/02/02/writer-nic-pizzolatto-on-thomas-ligotti-and-the-weird-secrets-of-true-detective/




On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 9:27 AM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:


This is exactly the point - the Ligotti content (whether it was paraphrased, plagiarized, borrowed, inspiring, or subtle shades of all of these)completely defines the series (well, Season One, anyway). When I watched the first episode, specifically the car scene with the two protagonists, I was blown away by the great dialogue, and started telling people what an amazing writer Pizzolatto was. I was particularly surprised to discover that Pizzolatto had written the entire series himself - usually there are multiple writers credited, along with many uncredited writers. That only increased Pizzolatto's prestige in my eyes. And now I feel somewhat bamboozled.





Some people have said, "well, it's a TV show - what are the characters supposed to do, drop references every time they refer to someone else's ideas?" No. But before it was a TV show, it was a manuscript. I actually got to read the series bible, where Pizzolatto pitched the project (he emphasized the shifts between the two time periods as the defining characteristic of the series), and laid out the entire plot, episode by episode. Aside from changing the location from Arkansas to Louisiana, the series was remarkably faithful to his bible. This is exactly the place, when he was proposing the series to HBO and actors, where he should have said: I've inserted multiple references to writers as diverse as Ligotti, Moore, and Chambers, which will add some deeper elements to the story and characters. That he didn't do this is really egregious, in my opinion.





For the rebuttal to describe TD as a "pastiche," is disingenuous, because it's a pastiche of some very obscure (well, maybe not for a lot of the people on this list)references. While the Yellow King references could be easily searched, Cohle's Ligottian influences were harder to track down, and obviously, far too many people had assumed they were original. Look, if he had just fucking mentioned Ligotti in his written materials and subsequent interviews, I'd have no issue with it. Plagiarism is about the hijacking of obscure and unsung writers' material (extremely well-known works can only be referenced, not plagiarized)), and if this guy is up for a writing Emmy based on using someone else's ideas without crediting them, well, at the very least, he should apologize.





Charles is absolutely right: stripped of Ligotti's ideas, this is a very prosaic story - the standard-issue grieving, burnt-out cop finds redemption. The first descriptions of Season Two are out (this one takes place in California), and it's populated by similar cliches.





Laura





-----Original Message-----



From: Charles Albert



The debate about whether or not it qualifies as plagiarism is reasonable. With respect to the other question, Pynchon without his sources would still be prose of the very highest order, stripped of Ligotti, True Detective would be Law & Order SVU with a drawl....





love,

cfa







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