Pynchon synchronicity learned today

[Mark Kohut]

John Bailey writes:
Anyway, rant over, back to COL49: I think Pynchon is trying to throw
shade on any kind of organising system that may be behind things.
Conspiracies are the big one, but also religion, state power,
knowledge heirarchies, etc. They're all potentially suspect and even
the "plot" of the traditional novel is potentially pulling a dodgy
move on the reader, selling something we don't quite know we're
buying.

whereas in my view Pynchon is
trying to undermine the very notion of the Grand Narrative. But he
sure knows the attraction of one.

I would second this with both hands for CofL49....that open ending
is so perfect. as a comment on America, it sez the old Grand Narrative---
a United States of Common Communication--via the mails---may be/is
over. The postwar tower of meaning was over.

However, then came some Grand Narrative visions, no? In an essay
on late 20th Century American fiction, the writer said something to this
effect: paranoid fictions have to cohere to carry the meaning of social
paranoia...fragmented, they fall victim to it.

GR works as a Grand Narrative about paranoia (and so much more)

And don't get me started on AtD, that loose baggy monster (James) of
a Grand Narrative, if I understand that concept the same way Bailey does.





On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:04 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
> I remember I knew a few people who got way too into the Celestine
> Prophecy back when it first came out. There was a cultish aspect to
> the book, which followers would explain was more than just fiction -
> it was a guide to life. And the guide seemed f--king obnoxious to me.
> They would start pointing out people with the apparent 'poor me'
> problem the book describes, which is such a handy way of shutting down
> another person's real suffering, and treads dangerously close to an
> Ayn Rand vision of the world in which suffering is solely the fault
> and responsibility of the sufferer. Similar deal with that other culty
> fad, The Secret. If you claim that a person's life is entirely formed
> by their attitude, then anyone experiencing misfortune has no one to
> blame but themselves, right? Thank goodness there's no such thing as
> structural inequality, entrenched bias, institutional power and the
> like!
>
> Anyway, rant over, back to COL49: I think Pynchon is trying to throw
> shade on any kind of organising system that may be behind things.
> Conspiracies are the big one, but also religion, state power,
> knowledge heirarchies, etc. They're all potentially suspect and even
> the "plot" of the traditional novel is potentially pulling a dodgy
> move on the reader, selling something we don't quite know we're
> buying.
>
> New Age novels like Celestine, occult beliefs and your garden variety
> conspiracy theory are all trying to create a Grand Narrative that will
> help us explain our mad existence, whereas in my view Pynchon is
> trying to undermine the very notion of the Grand Narrative. But he
> sure knows the attraction of one.
>
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's like there is this intersection between new age, occult beliefs and
>> conspiracy theories. That's what I wanna know more about, that intersection.
>>
>> On Dec 5, 2014 9:05 AM, "Perry Noid" <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah cool thanks. Specifically I want to know why Oedipa isn't like the main
>>> character from Celestine Prophecy who begins to notice strange coincidences
>>> and determines ultimately that it's due to some cosmic force or collective
>>> unconscious. Instead it's a possible conspiracy. They both have doubts, I
>>> thought about that and I don't think it's about having doubt. Oedipa feels
>>> more self aware than whatsisface from Celestine so maybe that's something or
>>> just a side effect of being a postmodern novel. I don't know, I'm no
>>> literature buff.
>>>
>>> I know one of them is a pretty good book and the other one is just kinda
>>> shitty (no offense to any fans here but it was just too convenient plot wise
>>> and pretty boring but...whatever, I just didn't like the book). But when
>>> does the belief in synchronicity become paranoia? Or if that is even
>>> possible
>>>
>>> On Dec 5, 2014 1:41 AM, "Mark Kohut" <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Morris knows Jung, so follow his words. My use was lax, or almost a joke
>>>> if I want to defend myself. The Wikipedia article on it seems good,
>>>> detailed.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 4, 2014, at 8:52 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Synchronicity doesn't primarily mean an occurrence of extreme
>>>> coincidence.  To my mind it means more a noticing significant chance
>>>> occurances that are the normal, unnoticed status quo. They seem uncanny when
>>>> we notice them, but they are actually the constant unnoticed norm.
>>>>
>>>> David Morris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, December 4, 2014, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Read Jung's introduction to Richard Wilhelm's translation of the I Ching
>>>>> in which he describes the significance of the chance throwing of the yarrow
>>>>> stick to get a read on one's fortune.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, December 4, 2014, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Goes back to Jung, as far as I know. ( which means if it goes back
>>>>>> further, I don't know where).
>>>>>> Essay In his Collected Works somewhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 4, 2014, at 4:16 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A friend gave me a copy of Celestine Prophecy to read not too long ago.
>>>>>> Never knew anything about it until I read it. She said it is one of her
>>>>>> favorite books. It isn't very long so I just read it. No comment on that.
>>>>>> Anyhooz, I decided I'd give her Lot 49 for Xmas and tell her it's a similar
>>>>>> book and that she might like it; see what happens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone have any suggestions or links to a monograph, essay, or a
>>>>>> book somewhere on paranoia and synchronicity?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 4, 2014 2:07 PM, "Mark Kohut" <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His time in the Navy overlapped with Bill Cosby's.
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
-
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