JFK and the Unspeakable :What does Japan have to do

[Martha Rooster-Singh]

Yes, JT, you are correct, sir.  It doesn't help that you are trying to
introduce ideas from a book that most of us here have not read, a book that
is certainly worth reading, or at least, learning about, that is, if one is
interested in the themes, clearly Pynchon related themes, that you have
been exploring and sharing with us recently, but you have been doing an
excellent job of it and I encourage you to continue you efforts. You
prefaced your in your introduction to Douglass's book by stating that you
did not know much about him, but that his work, as a type of Christian who
worked with Catholics for Peace etc.,  resonated with some of the more
complex themes in P's recent works.  The JFK as liberal saint, or, in
Douglass's narrative, man who, at a moment of crisis  (the Cuban Criis) was
forever changed by a Grace that was a "gathering of two in [Earth's and
Humanity's] name, two men, one a Catholic, one an Atheist communist, is a
beautiful one even if it is easily debunked as just another JFK conspiracy
book.

On Tuesday, January 14, 2014, Joseph Tracy wrote:

>  What does Japan have to do with Oliver Stone?
>
> Email communication can be loose and the variety of expositional, poetic,
> interlinear response styes are part of the terrain.  I believe any
> independent and astute examiner of texts would find plenty of thoughtfully
> and logically developed prose in the history of my posts. Some have
> received praise from several members of the p-list.  Agreement about ideas
> is a bit less common, but I think of this as a place to argue over ideas
> and historic realities which we care about and which appear thematically in
> Pynchon's work.
>
> Nevertheless the mystery of Japan and Oliver Stone is neither deep nor
> does it originate with me. For this we might best consider the post to
> which I was directly responding in which Rich wrote the following:
>
> "Japan hasn't really fessed up to the war. Ask the Chinese or the Koreans.
> Didn't realize we had Oliver Stone on the plist. You're smarter than that
> man."
>
> So you see malign there is a rather obvious reason for this fantastic leap
> of apparent incoherence, if one  took the trouble to read the post to which
> I was responding.
>
> Try developing some of your own coherent and thoroughly developed ideas if
> that is what you long for. Put out an original thought for once. So far I
> have seen nothing but boring trollery.
>
>
>
> >
> > My point is that his posts are a package of non-linear, look at this,
> what about that, nonsense, passing for argument and that it's all
> incoherent.  What does Japan have to do with Oliver Stone? are we not
> supposed to notice?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > To: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <javascript:;>>
> > Cc: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org <javascript:;>>
> > Sent: Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:36 pm
> > Subject: Re: JFK and the Unspeakable
> >
> > I gotta admit that I don't follow Malignd's  point other than ridicule
> by a logic I don't know yet.
> >
> > On Monday, January 13, 2014, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> > Why don't you actually say something you chicken shit asshole.  You have
> never said anything of your own.  You are a boring malignancy. Guess what
> big brain, Oliver Stone has made more than one film.  What have you done
> lately?
> > On Jan 13, 2014, at 6:28 PM, MalignD at aol.com <javascript:;> wrote:
> >
> > > Sentence one is Japan.  Sentence two,  Oliver Stone's "artistic"
> output, despite his film being completely wrong in its hypothesis.
>  Sentence three, if Oliver Stone were on the p-list!.  Sentence four, Jim
> Douglas is worth reading because he's not Oliver Stone who, one assumes,
> would not be worth reading (despite his artistic output and were he a
> writer).  Sentence five, which ignores the four-sentence preamble, instead
> makes a claim for what is "just pretty fucking obvious."  Sentence six --
> which is that the President is a pawn of the security state.  Sentence
> seven "there's a hole in (your?) big brother's arm ..." for which I'll have
> to take your word.
> > > Japan has faced its crimes far more deeply than the US. No one on the
> p-list has
> > > remotely rivaled Oliver Stones artistic output or skill though the JFK
> focus on
> > > Jim Garrison was a mistake. If  Stone was on the p-list I doubt he
> would be
> > > treated with dismissal. Anyway Jim Douglas is not  Oliver Stone and
> the book is
> > > worth reading. The problem is pretty fucking obvious and it isn't in
> ancient
> > > history. The president is a pawn played by the national security
> state. There's
> > > hole in big brother's arm where the money and the power goes and
> pretending
> > > won't make it go away.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <javascript:;>>
> > > To: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org <javascript:;>>
> > > Sent: Mon, Jan 13, 2014 1:29 am
> > > Subject: Re: JFK and the Unspeakable
> > >
> > > Japan has faced its crimes far more deeply than the US. No one on the
> p-list has
> > > remotely rivaled Oliver Stones artistic output or skill though the JFK
> focus on
> > > Jim Garrison was a mistake. If  Stone was on the p-list I doubt he
> would be
> > > treated with dismissal. Anyway Jim Douglas is not  Oliver Stone and
> the book is
> > > worth reading. The problem is pretty fucking obvious and it isn't in
> ancient
> > > history. The president is a pawn played by the national security
> state. There's
> > > hole in big brother's arm where the money and the power goes and
> pretending
> > > won't make it go away.
> > >
> > > On Jan 12, 2014, at 6:56 PM, Rich wrote:
> > >
> > > > Japan hasn't really fessed up to the war. Ask the Chinese or the
> Koreans
> > > >
> > > > Didn't realize we had Oliver Stone on the plist. You're smarter than
> that man
> > > c'mon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> On Jan 12, 2014, at 5:52 PM, Joseph Tracy <
> > > brook7 at sover.net <javascript:;>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I disagree. It matters. It is about a point of departure, and it is
> precisely
> > > because there was this challenge to and defiance of the prevailing
> myth that it
> > > matters. It is critical that we have a line that can't be crossed and
> crimes
> > > that must be faced just as Germany and Japan have faced their crimes.
> Kennedy
> > > represents  a point where the peacemaking that is currently deemed by
> the
> > > dominant culture to be unspeakable became both speakable and
> persuasively
> > > refreshing. Kennedy was loved and the love was growing and changing
> the culture.
> > > His death was not a meaningless accident. Not a paranoid fantasy.
>  Even the most
> > > cursory look at the assassination unleashes a flood of official
> denial, lies,
> > > manipulations, and  non-credible coincidences that demand that we
> simply refuse
> > > the official story. The narrative which the CIA tried to erase returns
> again and
> > > again and all the evidence functions as an Occam's razor to point to
> the CIA as
> > > the center of a successful plot to shift power away from elected
> leaders to an
> > > empire of secretive alliances between military, industrial, resource
> extraction
> > > and investment forces. Civilian and democratic oversight died with
> Kennedy. The
> > > only challenge to that was Carter who was easily relegated to one term
> and was
> > > still the vector of Breszinski's tenure as manager of imperial agenda.
> > > >>
> > > >> When you speak of thought crimes you relegate yourself to a cage
> which only
> > > you have the lock or key for.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Jan 12, 2014, at 8:21 AM, Martha Rooster-Singh wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Douglas doesn't have to
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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