The crying of bitcoin lots

Sun Jul 6 15:54:25 CDT 2014

I would have believed it was by Jeunet with or without Caro had I not known
better. You can translate the graphic novel out of the French (not to
mention th graphic novel), but ...

Meanwhile, bitcoins are hardly untraceable:

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/if-youre-not-careful-bitcoins-arent-as-anonymous-as-you-think

However:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/04/12/zerocoin-add-on-for-bitcoin-could-make-it-truly-anonymous-and-untraceable/

... though quantum computing and/or the fall of civilization will render
bitcoins worth the paper their printed on, and at least obsolete material
currencies can take on value in secondary markets (numismatics,
wallpapering, asswiping).  Whatever happened to hoarding gold (for whatever
use that'll serve in the post apocalypse)?  See also sound files,
electronic books.

In The 21st century Twilight Zone, Burgess Meredith'd emerge from the vault
only to drop his Kindle.

When it comes to crime, make mine cold hard cash.

On Sunday, July 6, 2014, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Hoping to see that movie some time this week!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>Sent: Jul 6, 2014 4:27 PM
>>To: "kelber at mindspring.com" <kelber at mindspring.com>
>>Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>Subject: Re: The crying of bitcoin lots
>>
>>In the service of the vision below, may I suggest that the new movie
SNOWPIERCER is a clever, with lotsa plot surprises, movie of a
slave/8worker rebellion, in a train world that is All 1984, against the 1%
who RULE... "The engine is eternal"....   One guy even says "in the zone" (
but probably in the sports sense) ...
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Jul 6, 2014, at 3:57 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that the untaxable bitcoin is a great development for
super-wealthy individuals and global conglomerates. Along with politicians
fighting the taxation of the rich, it's yet another nail in the coffin of
the nation-state as we know it. If you're not bringing in any tax money,
you don't have to fund schools, healthcare, or any of those other annoying
public-minded programs, unless there's some private interest in funding it.
Seems there's always funding for military, security, penal and surveillance
programs. So the welfare state will wither away, to become the private
security force of whichever global corporations are willing to pick up the
tab.
>>>
>>> I've argued here in the past, to some ridicule, that two sides are
shaping up: the forces of global capital - anti-tax, anti-tariff, unwilling
to pay for the poor, but always with a keen willingness to endorse
progressive outlooks that benefit profit-making, such as immigration (easy
flow of exploitable workers across borders), gay marriage (more likely to
be affluent than, say, single moms), abortion (religious folks being a drag
on highly profitable areas of the commercialization of women's wombs, fetal
stem cells, and such), and profit-making environmental enterprises (such as
privatizing water, keeping it clean of pollution, then charging money for
it).
>>>
>>> On the other side are some odd bed-fellows: progressives who believe in
strong government to fund social programs, environmentalists who know that
cleaning the environment is more likely to create the well-being of all
rather than the profits of a few, right-wing nationalists,
strong-government-minded fascists, religious extremists, and terrorists
opposed to various aspects of the global culture. It's a confusing
situation, because both sides have repellent and reasonable positions, and
neither side is remotely homogenous. But it seems (to me, anyway) like a
developing trend.
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Jul 6, 2014 2:34 PM
>>>> To: "pynchon-l at waste.org" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: The crying of bitcoin lots
>>>>
>>>> From the POV of Krugman's brand of Keynesian economics, the Bitcoin
>>>> will limit a government's taxing power, and then, presumably, its
>>>> power use fiscal policy.
>>>>
>>>> What would, for example, the mayor of NYC do if the could not even
>>>> collect the taxes on the wealthy he collects now? Consider how
>>>> difficult it is to raise taxes on the wealthy to fund collapsing
>>>> infrastructure, schools, etc...the proposed early childhood education
>>>> plan. If the wealthy could avoid taxes with Bitcoin transaction, how
>>>> would progressive government support the most vulnerable citizens.
>>>>
>>>> As things are now, the poor and ordinary, the working men and women
>>>> are being steamrolled out of the cities they built, their pensions and
>>>> job security, benefits cut.
>>>>
>>>> Ten years after had a good plan: Tax the rich. How ya gonna do that if
>>>> the Bitcoin let the mother fuckers hide all that mad money they be
>>>> making by making nothin but pain on the rest of us?
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 12:59 PM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>> OK, Krugman doesn't like it because he's not clear what the basis of
its value is. And he quotes some blogger who says:
>>>>>
>>>>> "BitCoin looks like it was designed as a weapon intended to damage
central banking and money issuing banks, with a Libertarian political
agenda in mind—to damage states ability to collect tax and monitor their
citizens financial transactions."
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with that assessment. Whether one thinks this is a good or
bad outcome, the bitcoin, by virtue of its untraceability,  is a menace to
governments trying to tax their citizens' income.
>>>>>
>>>>> But then there's the US Marshall Service muddling things up by
deciding the bitcoins have value and auctioning them off. Did they consult
with the US Treasury, or just wing it on their own? Are they a rogue
agency? If they did get a go-ahead from elsewhere in the government, well,
that's interesting too. It could mean that the Treasury and/or other US
agencies and/or officials have decided that bitcoins do have inherent value
(but no inherent vice, given that they have no physical incarnation).
>>>>>
>>>>> LK
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Jul 6, 2014 12:16 PM
>>>>>> To: "pynchon-l at waste.org" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: The crying of bitcoin lots
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm with Krugman. From a positive economics perspective I'm not
>>>>>> convinced it has value. Sliding toward the normative economic point
of
>>>>>> view, I'm with Robert Shiller on the Bitcoin.  I find the science and
>>>>>> culture of it fascinating, as I find Tulips fascinating too, and
Gold,
>>>>>> and, for different reasons, Yap, but I think it's a very good lesson
>>>>>> in bubbles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Shiller, though most famous for his Housing Index, the Case Shiller,
>>>>>> much to the surprise of his students and investment gurus the world
>>>>>> round, claims that housing is not an investment. Nor is Gold,
>>>>>> Tulips...Bitcoins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Monty Python- Dennis Moore
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/28/bitcoin-is-evil/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-shiller-bitcoin-2014-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/15/131934618/the-island-of-stone-money
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 10:16 AM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> A story about how the U.S. Marshals Service auctioned off some of
the bitcoins it "confiscated" from the deep web (or whatever you want to
call it) Silk Road network:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/03/daily-report-winner-of-bitcoin-auction-seeks-to-increase-currencys-use-in-emerging-markets/?module=BlogPost-Title&version=Blog%20Main&contentCollection=Technology&action=Click&pgtype=Blogs&region=Body
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What interests me is how the decision was made to auction the
bitcoins, which obviously enhances their value. Wasn't the US government
trying to squash the bitcoin? I think these supra-national currencies are
the wave of the future, and mark the eventual, if not demise, then
marginalizing of government-issued currencies. But what do I know. Alice,
I'd actually like to hear your opinion on this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>> -
>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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