Ukraine Rebel Leader: Malaysian Plane was Full of Already Dead Bodies

[kelber at mindspring.com]

The point is, nobody knows. Any accusations are pure speculation at this point. But that hasn't stopped the NY Times from printing inflammatory headlines based on speculation, such as this one, less than 24 hours after the crash:

US Sees Evidence of Russian Links to Jet's Downing 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-plane-ukraine.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar%2C%7B%221%22%3A%22RI%3A10%22%7D

"The United States government has concluded that the passenger jet felled over Ukraine was shot down by a Russian-made surface-to-air missile launched from rebel-held territory and most likely provided by Russia to pro-Moscow separatists, officials said on Friday."

"Without going into detail about the intelligence he had been shown, Mr. Obama said that the separatists had been armed and trained 'because of Russian support.' High-flying aircraft cannot be shot down without sophisticated equipment and training, he added, 'and that is coming from Russia.'"

"Their determination was based on an analysis of the launch plume and trajectory of the missile, as detected by an American military spy satellite. But the analysis did not pinpoint the origin of the missile launch or identify who launched it. 'Those are the million-dollar questions,' said a senior Pentagon official who, like others, insisted on anonymity to discuss details of the analysis."

"'We have high confidence that it was not a Ukrainian system,' the official said of the battery that shot down the Malaysian plane. 'We have reason to suspect that it could be a Russian-supplied system.'"

The evidence "seen" isn't based on any knowledge of where the missile originated from or who launched it, and the "seen evidence" is eventually qualified with phrases such as "reason to suspect" and "it could be."

Regardless of who ultimately is found responsible (if that happens any time soon, or ever); even if it turns out conclusively that Putin was on the ground giving step-by-step missile-launching instructions to zombie worshiping, donkey-fucking, Russian separatist cannibals, how can any of the analytical minded, text-parsing folks on this list see the above article, written in a near-vacuum of credible facts, as responsible, objective journalism?

Laura


-----Original Message-----
>From: Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>
>Sent: Jul 21, 2014 10:48 AM
>To: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>Cc: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>, P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>Subject: Re: Ukraine Rebel Leader: Malaysian Plane was Full of Already Dead Bodies
>
>I only addressed Parry's claim because David correctly pointed towards 
>his poor sourcing for this bit of information. As for the claim itself: 
>I find it more probable that the rebels shot down the airplane by mistake.
>
>I should perhaps have made clear that this was not my point. My point 
>was about the rush to judgment.
>
>Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
>Am 21.07.2014 16:34, schrieb Mark Kohut:
>> If Parry's right, much--all--gets turned upside down. A truth inversion.
>>
>> The US sez: satellites show missile fired from territory the rebels---and all--say was in their control.
>> One of the separatist commanders tweeted about shooting down another Ukranian plane---then
>> Deflated that tweet after news a commercial plane was downed.
>> Our pals, the Ukrainians have supposedly confirmed to US that none of their missiles are missing.
>>
>> The Ukrainians say they that's he Ukranians  were not even in readiness to shoot since the separatists had no planes.
>>
>> "dressed as Ukrainians" is something the separatists might do since one major point is to
>> Make sure the Ukranians get blamed for anything, as Putin is doing.
>>
>> I read that the first phone call went from Putin to Obama. Would he do that just to blame
>> The Ukranians to the Commander-in-Chief, smart enough to know the US would have some
>> Surveillance knowledge of it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Jul 21, 2014, at 6:25 AM, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> David,
>>>
>>> I do not know who shot down that airplane, and neither do you.
>>>
>>> It may well be that the rebels mistakenly shot down the plane with the missiles and expertise provided by Russia. If Kerry has evidence, let him provide it. Blaming Russia without presenting evidence is just more propaganda. And when or if Kerry presents evidence, let us hope he doesn't pull a Colin Powell or Tony Blair on the world...
>>>
>>>> The article offers this evidence for the missiles having been fired by
>>>> Ukraine troops:
>>>>
>>>> -----------------
>>>>
>>>> "Regarding the shoot-down of the Malaysian jetliner on Thursday, *_I’m
>>>> told that_* some CIA analysts _cite U.S. satellite reconnaissance photos
>>>> _suggesting that the anti-aircraft missile that brought down Flight 17
>>>> was fired by Ukrainian troops from a government battery"
>>>>
>>>> 1. Reporter "was told" by third party (not even vaguely sourced) about
>>>> "some CIA analysts" think Ukraine troops shot missile.
>>>
>>> Yes, he should have spoken to the "CIA analysts" himself. FWIW, Parry has a new piece up in which he repeats his claim about the airplane being shot down by Ukrainian soldiers, this time referring to "one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past."
>>>
>>> This said, all in all Robert Parry, like Seymour Hersh, has a much better track record with regard to factual truth than the US-government.
>>>
>>> What he critizises is the "rush to judgment." I agree. But this rush to judgment is no accident. The best summary of what we are dealing with is this:
>>>
>>> 'The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."'
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community
>>>
>>> In his new piece, Parry writes:
>>>
>>> "In the heat of the U.S. media’s latest war hysteria – rushing to pin blame for the crash of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet on Russia’s President Vladimir Putin – there is the same absence of professional skepticism that has marked similar stampedes on Iraq, Syria and elsewhere – with key questions not being asked or answered."
>>>
>>> http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/
>>>
>>> I can assure you, by the way, that it is not only the U.S. media that suffers from war hysteria.
>>>
>>> The rest of Parry's new article is very much to the point especially as regards the Ukrainian government and in particular Andriy Parubiy who may very well be the most dangerous man alive.
>>>
>>> Thomas
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=nchon-l
>>
>-
>Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l