Ukraine Rebel Leader: Malaysian Plane was Full of Already Dead Bodies

[Thomas Eckhardt]

Am 22.07.2014 21:03, schrieb David Morris:

> As I said in my post re. Zerohedge: "If any of this is true, things will
> shake out very fast now. Let's just wait and see."

Russia has presented evidence concerning the downing of MH-17 in a 
global press conference, officially and on the record.

Details of the Russian statements may be found at Zerohedge, of course 
at RT, but also here:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/25/mh17-sacrificed-airliner/

The WSJ via Counterpunch:

"Russia’s Defense Ministry on Monday presented its first detailed 
account of the final moments of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, saying 
Russian radar had spotted a second aircraft in the vicinity shortly 
before the crash and that satellite imagery showed Ukraine had moved 
missile systems into the area before the incident.

(...)

In an elaborate presentation displaying radar and satellite imagery, Mr. 
Makushev said it was likely that the second airplane was a Ukrainian 
fighter jet. He also showed satellite photos allegedly portraying 
several Buk ground-to-air missile systems in the area close to where the 
plane crashed. The systems, he said, could only belong to the Ukrainian 
military. Ukraine has accused Russia of giving the rebels a Buk system, 
with which they then shot down the passenger jet.

Mr. Makushev said the airplane deviated from its course by 14 
kilometers, but then attempted to return to its course, before crashing 
shortly after.

He said Russia is prepared to hand all of the information it has to 
European authorities, which included satellite imagery and data from its 
own radars.”

Note how careful the Russians try to avoid conclusions. They have posed 
ten questions to the Ukrainian government in the spirit of cooperation 
-- or so they say.

Of course, Russia may be lying in order to avert blame from the rebels.

In this case, one should expect an immediate rebuttal based on evidence 
at least as good as the one presented. It is inconceivable that the U.S. 
government does not know what happened and does not have the records to 
prove it.

Russia has asked the U.S. government to publish the data they have.

The U.S. government has stated that it has "strong confidence" in its 
own version that the missile was launched in territory held by the 
rebels. It has stated that it can neither confirm nor deny that there 
was a Ukrainian military plane in the vicinity of the airliner. As 
evidence it referred to social media and "classified information."

This is very embarrassing:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/07/229681.htm#UKRAINE

What this means is that very likely there was a Ukrainian fighter plane 
in the vicinity of the airliner when it was shot down.

Meanwhile the Ukrainian security service SBU has "confiscated recordings 
of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the 
crew of the doomed airliner (...)"

This would be important with regard to the alleged deviation of the plane.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784

The Kiev army/national guard, despite Poroshenko having announced a 
ceasefire in a 40km radius around the crash site in order to allow for 
independent investigations, desperately tries to get control of the site 
and has publicly stated to do just that. The heavy fighting, of course, 
makes it impossible for Dutch and Australian investigators to investigate.

-- A few days before that the following dialogue ensued:

"QUESTION: Okay. Are you concerned that a break in ceasefire could 
impede the investigation?

MS. HARF: Well, obviously, we would be concerned about the separatists 
not upholding a ceasefire. The Ukrainians have repeatedly shown their 
willingness and ability to do so."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/07/229681.htm#UKRAINE --

There is a report by the BBC from the crash site which has supposedly 
been deleted. Eye witnesses claim to have seen fighter jets near the 
Malaysian airliner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUvK5m2vxro

Etc. pp. Draw your own conclusions.

It may be only my impression but it seems that interest in who actually 
pulled the trigger has gone down significantly since Russia's press 
conference. Also, the Ukrainian attacks on the rebels holding the crash 
site do not seem to be as interesting as whether rebels at the site were 
drunk.

All of this doesn't matter. It doesn't even merit serious debate. The 
narrative has been set: It was "Putin's missile". Accordingly, the 
"facts are being fixed around the policy" and the reality-based 
community will be left to study just what history's actors do.

It's the same in Germany.

Frankly, I am feeling like I am sitting in a hijacked airplane and 
everybody else says, naaah, this is the route we were always supposed to 
take.

Thomas
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l