Ukraine Rebel Leader: Malaysian Plane was Full of Already Dead Bodies

[kelber at mindspring.com]

Thomas Eckhardt: "Frankly, I am feeling like I am sitting in a hijacked airplane and everybody else says, naaah, 
this is the route we were always supposed to take."

I'm sitting, white-knuckled, right behind you. Now everybody --

Laura



-----Original Message-----
>From: Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>
>Sent: Jul 28, 2014 6:11 PM
>To: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>, "kelber at mindspring.com" <kelber at mindspring.com>
>Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>Subject: Re: Ukraine Rebel Leader: Malaysian Plane was Full of Already Dead Bodies
>
>Am 22.07.2014 21:03, schrieb David Morris:
>
>> As I said in my post re. Zerohedge: "If any of this is true, things will
>> shake out very fast now. Let's just wait and see."
>
>Russia has presented evidence concerning the downing of MH-17 in a 
>global press conference, officially and on the record.
>
>Details of the Russian statements may be found at Zerohedge, of course 
>at RT, but also here:
>
>http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/25/mh17-sacrificed-airliner/
>
>The WSJ via Counterpunch:
>
>"Russia’s Defense Ministry on Monday presented its first detailed 
>account of the final moments of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, saying 
>Russian radar had spotted a second aircraft in the vicinity shortly 
>before the crash and that satellite imagery showed Ukraine had moved 
>missile systems into the area before the incident.
>
>(...)
>
>In an elaborate presentation displaying radar and satellite imagery, Mr. 
>Makushev said it was likely that the second airplane was a Ukrainian 
>fighter jet. He also showed satellite photos allegedly portraying 
>several Buk ground-to-air missile systems in the area close to where the 
>plane crashed. The systems, he said, could only belong to the Ukrainian 
>military. Ukraine has accused Russia of giving the rebels a Buk system, 
>with which they then shot down the passenger jet.
>
>Mr. Makushev said the airplane deviated from its course by 14 
>kilometers, but then attempted to return to its course, before crashing 
>shortly after.
>
>He said Russia is prepared to hand all of the information it has to 
>European authorities, which included satellite imagery and data from its 
>own radars.”
>
>Note how careful the Russians try to avoid conclusions. They have posed 
>ten questions to the Ukrainian government in the spirit of cooperation 
>-- or so they say.
>
>Of course, Russia may be lying in order to avert blame from the rebels.
>
>In this case, one should expect an immediate rebuttal based on evidence 
>at least as good as the one presented. It is inconceivable that the U.S. 
>government does not know what happened and does not have the records to 
>prove it.
>
>Russia has asked the U.S. government to publish the data they have.
>
>The U.S. government has stated that it has "strong confidence" in its 
>own version that the missile was launched in territory held by the 
>rebels. It has stated that it can neither confirm nor deny that there 
>was a Ukrainian military plane in the vicinity of the airliner. As 
>evidence it referred to social media and "classified information."
>
>This is very embarrassing:
>
>http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/07/229681.htm#UKRAINE
>
>What this means is that very likely there was a Ukrainian fighter plane 
>in the vicinity of the airliner when it was shot down.
>
>Meanwhile the Ukrainian security service SBU has "confiscated recordings 
>of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the 
>crew of the doomed airliner (...)"
>
>This would be important with regard to the alleged deviation of the plane.
>
>http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28360784
>
>The Kiev army/national guard, despite Poroshenko having announced a 
>ceasefire in a 40km radius around the crash site in order to allow for 
>independent investigations, desperately tries to get control of the site 
>and has publicly stated to do just that. The heavy fighting, of course, 
>makes it impossible for Dutch and Australian investigators to investigate.
>
>-- A few days before that the following dialogue ensued:
>
>"QUESTION: Okay. Are you concerned that a break in ceasefire could 
>impede the investigation?
>
>MS. HARF: Well, obviously, we would be concerned about the separatists 
>not upholding a ceasefire. The Ukrainians have repeatedly shown their 
>willingness and ability to do so."
>
>http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2014/07/229681.htm#UKRAINE --
>
>There is a report by the BBC from the crash site which has supposedly 
>been deleted. Eye witnesses claim to have seen fighter jets near the 
>Malaysian airliner:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUvK5m2vxro
>
>Etc. pp. Draw your own conclusions.
>
>It may be only my impression but it seems that interest in who actually 
>pulled the trigger has gone down significantly since Russia's press 
>conference. Also, the Ukrainian attacks on the rebels holding the crash 
>site do not seem to be as interesting as whether rebels at the site were 
>drunk.
>
>All of this doesn't matter. It doesn't even merit serious debate. The 
>narrative has been set: It was "Putin's missile". Accordingly, the 
>"facts are being fixed around the policy" and the reality-based 
>community will be left to study just what history's actors do.
>
>It's the same in Germany.
>
>Frankly, I am feeling like I am sitting in a hijacked airplane and 
>everybody else says, naaah, this is the route we were always supposed to 
>take.
>
>Thomas
>-
>Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l

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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l