Another Geopolitical Triumph For Vladimir Putin!

[Thomas Eckhardt]

I certainly don't believe ultra right-wingers (aka Nazis or, in this 
case, Banderists) are your heroes. The evidence I provided merely shows 
that the neo-Nazi paramilitary units who brought about regime change on 
the Maidan are now rapidly becoming part of the military/the national 
guard. Obviously, you don't have a problem with that. I certainly do.

You seem to believe that these people will quietly disappear "once the 
country joins the West", or once parliamentary elections have taken 
place. I don't.

In my opinion you are severely misjudging the power and ruthlessness of 
the Banderists and their troops. But what really enrages me is that 
these people receive political, financial and PR support from the West.

At best, the West is supporting Nazis/Banderists (amongst other, less 
odious groups, of course) as a means to an end. From this perspective, 
the end of curtailing Russia's influence in the region justifies the 
means. To me it doesn't.

All you say about Russia and Putin may well be true. I am not pro-Putin, 
I am anti-Nazi. And I try to first look at the beam in my own eye.

We have been debating various matters, P-related or not, for 10 to 15 
years now, David. I may not always agree with you but I respect your 
point of view. There is no need to call me "someone from Germany."

Thomas


Am 29.06.2014 07:23, schrieb David Morris:
> Every time I post something that demonstrates Putin's futile effort to
> keep Ukraine in its court, someone from Germany posts evidence showing
> how ultra right wingers are my heroes.  Am I myopic, or are those
> pro-Putiners?  It seems to me that most of Ukraine wants to leave the
> former Soviet empire.  It seems to me that Russia today is a vast mafia
> oligarchy.  No matter how right or left the Ukrainians may be, they seem
> to want a place where law is more stable than in Putin's realm.  The
> present actors in Ukraine are just a transition, a pendulum.  They can't
> remains in their present form once the country join the West.  I know I
> am far removed from your reality.  Please explain why you are pro Putin
> in this conflict.
>
> On Saturday, June 28, 2014, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de
> <mailto:thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>> wrote:
>
>     150,000 internally and externally displaced persons, a government
>     that refuses to cooperate with the UN regarding an investigation of
>     the Odessa atrocity (UN report on human rights), a-and these guys
>     doing their very best to "improve rule of law and human rights" in
>     the Ukraine:
>
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Azov_Battalion
>     <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion>
>
>     (I recommend the video clip showing the oath of enlistment. It is
>     there that you can see the 'Wolfsangel.')
>
>     The Azov Battalion is subordinated to the Ministry of Internal
>     Affairs and organized by this highly interesting group:
>
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Social-National_Assembly
>     <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-National_Assembly>
>
>     Nice work. Let freedom ring!
>
>     Thomas
>
>     P.S. While you're at it, you may also look at the Wiki entry for
>     Andriy Parubiy, a member of the government and Ukraine's
>     representative in consultations with NATO.
>
>
>
>
>     Am 27.06.2014 14:43, schrieb David Morris:
>
>         http://www.motherjones.com/__kevin-drum/2014/06/another-__geopolitical-triumph-valdimir-__putin
>         <http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/06/another-geopolitical-triumph-valdimir-putin>
>
>           From the /Guardian/:
>         <http://www.theguardian.com/__world/2014/jun/26/ukraine-__european-union-trade-pact
>         <http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/26/ukraine-european-union-trade-pact>>
>
>              It was the document that started a revolution and ended up
>         bringing
>              Europe to the brink of war. Ukraine's association agreement
>         with the
>              European Union, a mainly economic document setting up a
>         free trade
>              area that nevertheless has political and strategic
>         ramifications,
>              will finally be signed on Friday.
>
>              Along with Georgia and Moldova, two other post-Soviet
>         countries keen
>              to move out of Moscow's orbit, *Kiev will sign the deal with
>              Brussels to establish a free-trade area and introduce a raft of
>              measures designed to synchronise economies with EU
>         nations,* as well
>              as improve rule of law and human rights.
>
>         Yep, that Putin is a geopolitical strategic mastermind, isn't
>         he? Every
>         country on Russia's border is now hellbent on better economic and
>         military ties with the West. Nice work.
>
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l