Another Geopolitical Triumph For Vladimir Putin!

[David Morris]

Thomas,

"Someone from Germany" was not meant as an insult.  Unless I'm mistaken,
there are quite a few others from Germany who agree with you.

David

On Sunday, June 29, 2014, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>
wrote:

> I certainly don't believe ultra right-wingers (aka Nazis or, in this case,
> Banderists) are your heroes. The evidence I provided merely shows that the
> neo-Nazi paramilitary units who brought about regime change on the Maidan
> are now rapidly becoming part of the military/the national guard.
> Obviously, you don't have a problem with that. I certainly do.
>
> You seem to believe that these people will quietly disappear "once the
> country joins the West", or once parliamentary elections have taken place.
> I don't.
>
> In my opinion you are severely misjudging the power and ruthlessness of
> the Banderists and their troops. But what really enrages me is that these
> people receive political, financial and PR support from the West.
>
> At best, the West is supporting Nazis/Banderists (amongst other, less
> odious groups, of course) as a means to an end. From this perspective, the
> end of curtailing Russia's influence in the region justifies the means. To
> me it doesn't.
>
> All you say about Russia and Putin may well be true. I am not pro-Putin, I
> am anti-Nazi. And I try to first look at the beam in my own eye.
>
> We have been debating various matters, P-related or not, for 10 to 15
> years now, David. I may not always agree with you but I respect your point
> of view. There is no need to call me "someone from Germany."
>
> Thomas
>
>
> Am 29.06.2014 07:23, schrieb David Morris:
>
>> Every time I post something that demonstrates Putin's futile effort to
>> keep Ukraine in its court, someone from Germany posts evidence showing
>> how ultra right wingers are my heroes.  Am I myopic, or are those
>> pro-Putiners?  It seems to me that most of Ukraine wants to leave the
>> former Soviet empire.  It seems to me that Russia today is a vast mafia
>> oligarchy.  No matter how right or left the Ukrainians may be, they seem
>> to want a place where law is more stable than in Putin's realm.  The
>> present actors in Ukraine are just a transition, a pendulum.  They can't
>> remains in their present form once the country join the West.  I know I
>> am far removed from your reality.  Please explain why you are pro Putin
>> in this conflict.
>>
>> On Saturday, June 28, 2014, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de
>> <mailto:thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>> wrote:
>>
>>     150,000 internally and externally displaced persons, a government
>>     that refuses to cooperate with the UN regarding an investigation of
>>     the Odessa atrocity (UN report on human rights), a-and these guys
>>     doing their very best to "improve rule of law and human rights" in
>>     the Ukraine:
>>
>>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Azov_Battalion
>>     <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion>
>>
>>     (I recommend the video clip showing the oath of enlistment. It is
>>     there that you can see the 'Wolfsangel.')
>>
>>     The Azov Battalion is subordinated to the Ministry of Internal
>>     Affairs and organized by this highly interesting group:
>>
>>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/__Social-National_Assembly
>>     <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-National_Assembly>
>>
>>     Nice work. Let freedom ring!
>>
>>     Thomas
>>
>>     P.S. While you're at it, you may also look at the Wiki entry for
>>     Andriy Parubiy, a member of the government and Ukraine's
>>     representative in consultations with NATO.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Am 27.06.2014 14:43, schrieb David Morris:
>>
>>         http://www.motherjones.com/__kevin-drum/2014/06/another-__
>> geopolitical-triumph-valdimir-__putin
>>         <http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/06/another-
>> geopolitical-triumph-valdimir-putin>
>>
>>           From the /Guardian/:
>>         <http://www.theguardian.com/__world/2014/jun/26/ukraine-__
>> european-union-trade-pact
>>         <http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/26/ukraine-
>> european-union-trade-pact>>
>>
>>              It was the document that started a revolution and ended up
>>         bringing
>>              Europe to the brink of war. Ukraine's association agreement
>>         with the
>>              European Union, a mainly economic document setting up a
>>         free trade
>>              area that nevertheless has political and strategic
>>         ramifications,
>>              will finally be signed on Friday.
>>
>>              Along with Georgia and Moldova, two other post-Soviet
>>         countries keen
>>              to move out of Moscow's orbit, *Kiev will sign the deal with
>>              Brussels to establish a free-trade area and introduce a raft
>> of
>>              measures designed to synchronise economies with EU
>>         nations,* as well
>>              as improve rule of law and human rights.
>>
>>         Yep, that Putin is a geopolitical strategic mastermind, isn't
>>         he? Every
>>         country on Russia's border is now hellbent on better economic and
>>         military ties with the West. Nice work.
>>
>>
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