Anybody interested in Project Paperclip should probably stay away from the Jacobson book

[Joseph Tracy]

I don't really see the logic of what you are saying. 1st point) "our own vast moral failure". 'Our own' meaning the majority of citizens who did not want to import Nazi scientists? Or some other us who have the power to ignore public opinion and the stated policy of the President and do as they wish? 
I agree that most of our national problems are plainly visible, but isn't the fact that powerful policy makers in defense and intelligence wanted  to skirt legal accountability for war crimes and bring in Nazi science and policy people and wanted to do so against popular will and against important opposition voices indicative of  something other than a united expression of national will? Doesn't the fact that they went ahead secretly also indicate how policy is made in the US regardless of democratic process?
   We talk about the cold war as a battle with Soviet Russia and China but big enemies are always a psychological part of totalitarian systems and can be convenient cover stories.   Meanwhile all the actual fighting we engaged in apart maybe from Korea was to continue colonial projects.
 Part of what GR is about is the tendencies within the culture of the western allies toward the generation of systems of totalitarian control which are parallel to the axis madness . It also points out the tendency to override moral restraint and ignore human rights in the interests of a paranoid strategic priority. This is what a conspiracy is  and there are thousands of examples from Abu Graibh to the gulf of Tonkin to the Tuskeegee syphilis  experiments to cointelpro to operation paperclip. The idea that all have been exposed is naive. 
  A modern parallel to operation paper clip is Total Information Awareness, proposed by Dick Cheney publicly, roundly rejected, and made operational secretly, and in contradiction to public statements, by Barak Obama.
 So Mr Le Carre is all wrong. There is no deep state, there is no deep state, there is.....

On Mar 5, 2014, at 8:59 AM, Monte Davis wrote:

> I liked some of Blowback, but also found in it some of the tacit "Nazi magic" attitude I object to in l'affaire von Braun: in Simpson's book, that our stance toward the postwar USSR was corrupted by a relative handful of Germans with their own _parti pris_ and axes to grind; in von Braun's case, that we don't have to think about our own vast moral failure in missile/nuclear strategy, or the Cold War origins of the space race -- because hey, there were NAZIS providing a technical leg up at White Sands and Huntsville.
> 
> In both cases, there were so many other, broader causes at work that when I ask myself: "Would US choices and policies have been materially different if Paperclip had never existed?" the answer is "no." 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
> I enjoyed, if that is the right word, Christopher Simpson's "Blowback."
> 
> Thomas
> 
> Am 04.03.2014 10:11, schrieb Mark Thibodeau:
> 
> Here is what some "serious" conspiracy minded people think of Ms
> Jacobson and her work...
> 
> http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37827
> 
> YOPJerky
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> 
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> 

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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l