What happens to a conspiracy revealed?

[rich]

when you know they have been or are actively engaged in planning terrorist
operations like Awalaki? i have no problem with that frankly. russians have
been doing it so has iran iraq, the UK, Israel, etc. thats what cover ops
is about. is it moral? can we judge what countries do in moral terms? i'm
not so sure


On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:47 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:

> It is all out in the open. See: Jeremy Scahill's book (or documentary
> version) Dirty Wars. That was my original point: it doesn't change anything
> when these clandestine activities are aired.
>
> So, Rich, when the US perceives someone's rhetoric as a threat, it's OK to
> go into whatever country houses them and murder them, collateral damage be
> damned? I assume then, that this response is also OK for Russia, for Iran,
> for North Korea, etc.?
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rich
> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 2:33 PM
> To: Monte Davis
> Cc: kelber
> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>
> u expect all this to be out in the open? all we can hope for is proper
> oversight. and I do trust our current President on this.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Sorry, Laura, that's classified. As is the process by which the decisions
>> were made. As is the modified revised extended FISA protocol by which you
>> will be put under surveillance -- well, *more* surveillance -- if you keep
>> asking.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:59 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Which were warranted?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rich
>>> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 1:45 PM
>>> To: kelber
>>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org"
>>> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>>>
>>> some of those "murders" were warranted. just saying
>>> Look, I get the concern here but I also think that total transparency is
>>> just as dangerous. Not sure the snowdens and assanges really get that.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:33 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Acceptance from the right-wing is a given. It's harder to take from
>>>> people, politicians and newspapers who present themselves as thoughtful and
>>>> socially progressive.
>>>>
>>>> LK
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Monte Davis
>>>> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 1:25 PM
>>>> To: kelber
>>>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org"
>>>> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>>>>
>>>> Casual acceptance, hell -- rousing ovations! Check out Charlie Pierce's
>>>> coverage of star speakers at CPAC over the last few days:  Ollie North,
>>>> Scooter Libby, Bernard Kerik...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/crooks-at-cpac-2014-030714
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:59 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What happens when a conspiracy is revealed to the public? Not much.
>>>>> What about anything has changed since Snowden's revelations? The shadowy
>>>>> group journalist Jeremy Scahill was investigating, Joint Strategic
>>>>> Operations Command - responsible for thousands of covert murders across the
>>>>> globe - was revealed and publicly lauded in the midst of Scahill's
>>>>> investigation. What happened? Nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today, another conspiracy is cheerfully reported in the NY Times in
>>>>> the guise of a story about business prowess:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/business/staking-1-billion-that-herbalife-will-fail-then-ackman-lobbying-to-bring-it-down.html?hp&_r=0
>>>>>
>>>>> Which leads to the question: is it still a conspiracy if it's
>>>>> completely out in the open? Isn't the excitement of delving into a
>>>>> conspiracy the stray hope: "once people find out about this ..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure that Pynchon answers this fully in any of his books. Sure, he
>>>>> points to a lot of tips of icebergs and facades: industry as the front for
>>>>> something much more sinister, on an almost metaphysical plane. We
>>>>> understand that his "They," while they may have specific servants, don't
>>>>> exist in any tangible form. Can't un-elect them, can't storm their
>>>>> chateaux. But the problem is, when "They" get too metaphysical, they start
>>>>> blending in with the metaphysical scenery - God, Nature, The Universe, Fate.
>>>>>
>>>>> But what would happen if the really sinister characters were revealed?
>>>>> If there was a complete analysis of Scarsdale Vibe's or Brock Vond's doings
>>>>> on the front page of the paper of record, and it was treated as a
>>>>> celebration of ingenuity, rather than an indictment or a history-changing
>>>>> moment? To me, this is scarier than any "They" in Pynchon's writings,
>>>>> because this is really happening today here in our world. Pynchon's always
>>>>> known about these people. We all have. It's the casual acceptance of them
>>>>> that comes as a shock.
>>>>>
>>>>> Laura
>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>
>>>  - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>
>>
>>
>  - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
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