What happens to a conspiracy revealed?

Tue Mar 11 09:01:32 CDT 2014

Maybe the paranoia we Americans see is really a hallmark of our societal
narcissism. Narcissists take as hostages people who will supply them with
the emotional regulation ("narc supply" aka tribute) they require. Then,
when, the hostage catches on, the narcissist "kills" them by disassociating
from them and defaming them whenever possible. At the international level,
a narcissist society invades a sovereign state that lives by different
standards in the interest of liberating that state from its backward ways.
The invader then requires tribute from the nation they thus colonize, then,
of course, if the colonized nation produces a movement that attempts to
break with the colonizer, or to do harm to the colonizer, the narc state
must kill the impudent little pricks (terrorists / insurgents) that don't
like them. Or something like that.

On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Michael Bailey <mikebailey at gmx.us> wrote:

> Of course we can judge countries in moral terms.
>
> But like Andrew Jackson said when the Supreme Court gave some land back to
> the Indians, "They have made their decision. Now let them enforce it."
>
> That's trickier. However, it is said that the mills, or wheels, or
> something, of justice, and its corollary, mercy, grind slow but exceedingly
> fine.
>
> /silliness
> In the meantime, which, as Jimi Hendrix sez, is the groovy time -
> There will be time for a thousand indecisions between the taking of the
> toast and Chou en Lai getting high on all the tea in China...
> Shoring up fragments against one's ruins,
> Regretting not being at those hot gates,
> Rolling up the trousers and daring to eat a peach,
> I am not prince Albert, no, nor am I in a can!
>
> Data! Dayrunner! Damyankee!
>
> Because
> Because the burden
> Because the burden of political power
> Would seem too weighty for the heads, the necks, the backs
> Of those for whom compassion isn't easily limited to members only
> There rush instead into the breach,
> Careless, those who care less,
> Admiring this man's gun and that man's scope
>
> Da doo doo doo
> Da da da da...
>
> Madame Sosostris notified me
> She had to have a bath or she couldn't get to sleep
> She was totally vexed about the geopolitical discourse
> And about to cry - (about to cry)
> So we had a cup of tea and we shared a spot of pie
> (Spot of pie)
> (The butter wouldn't melt so we put it in the pie)
>
> Live a little, be a gypsy, get around
> Get your feet up off the ground,
> Live a little get around
>
> Da doo Ron ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  when you know they have been or are actively engaged in planning
>> terrorist operations like Awalaki? i have no problem with that frankly.
>> russians have been doing it so has iran iraq, the UK, Israel, etc. thats
>> what cover ops is about. is it moral? can we judge what countries do in
>> moral terms? i'm not so sure
>>
>>
>>  On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:47 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  It is all out in the open. See: Jeremy Scahill's book (or documentary
>>> version) Dirty Wars. That was my original point: it doesn't change anything
>>> when these clandestine activities are aired.
>>>
>>>   So, Rich, when the US perceives someone's rhetoric as a threat, it's
>>> OK to go into whatever country houses them and murder them, collateral
>>> damage be damned? I assume then, that this response is also OK for Russia,
>>> for Iran, for North Korea, etc.?
>>>
>>>   Laura
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rich
>>> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 2:33 PM
>>> To: Monte Davis
>>> Cc: kelber
>>> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>>>
>>>  u expect all this to be out in the open? all we can hope for is proper
>>> oversight. and I do trust our current President on this.
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Sorry, Laura, that's classified. As is the process by which the
>>>> decisions were made. As is the modified revised extended FISA protocol by
>>>> which you will be put under surveillance -- well, *more* surveillance -- if
>>>> you keep asking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:59 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Which were warranted?
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: rich
>>>>> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 1:45 PM
>>>>> To: kelber
>>>>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org"
>>>>> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>>>>>
>>>>>  some of those "murders" were warranted. just saying
>>>>>  Look, I get the concern here but I also think that total transparency
>>>>> is just as dangerous. Not sure the snowdens and assanges really get that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 1:33 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Acceptance from the right-wing is a given. It's harder to take from
>>>>>> people, politicians and newspapers who present themselves as thoughtful and
>>>>>> socially progressive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   LK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Monte Davis
>>>>>> Sent: Mar 10, 2014 1:25 PM
>>>>>> To: kelber
>>>>>> Cc: "pynchon-l at waste.org"
>>>>>> Subject: Re: What happens to a conspiracy revealed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Casual acceptance, hell -- rousing ovations! Check out Charlie
>>>>>> Pierce's coverage of star speakers at CPAC over the last few days:  Ollie
>>>>>> North, Scooter Libby, Bernard Kerik...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/crooks-at-cpac-2014-030714
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 12:59 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What happens when a conspiracy is revealed to the public? Not much.
>>>>>>> What about anything has changed since Snowden's revelations? The shadowy
>>>>>>> group journalist Jeremy Scahill was investigating, Joint Strategic
>>>>>>> Operations Command - responsible for thousands of covert murders across the
>>>>>>> globe - was revealed and publicly lauded in the midst of Scahill's
>>>>>>> investigation. What happened? Nothing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today, another conspiracy is cheerfully reported in the NY Times in
>>>>>>> the guise of a story about business prowess:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/10/business/staking-1-billion-that-herbalife-will-fail-then-ackman-lobbying-to-bring-it-down.html?hp&_r=0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which leads to the question: is it still a conspiracy if it's
>>>>>>> completely out in the open? Isn't the excitement of delving into a
>>>>>>> conspiracy the stray hope: "once people find out about this ..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure that Pynchon answers this fully in any of his books. Sure,
>>>>>>> he points to a lot of tips of icebergs and facades: industry as the front
>>>>>>> for something much more sinister, on an almost metaphysical plane. We
>>>>>>> understand that his "They," while they may have specific servants, don't
>>>>>>> exist in any tangible form. Can't un-elect them, can't storm their
>>>>>>> chateaux. But the problem is, when "They" get too metaphysical, they start
>>>>>>> blending in with the metaphysical scenery - God, Nature, The Universe, Fate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But what would happen if the really sinister characters were
>>>>>>> revealed? If there was a complete analysis of Scarsdale Vibe's or Brock
>>>>>>> Vond's doings on the front page of the paper of record, and it was treated
>>>>>>> as a celebration of ingenuity, rather than an indictment or a
>>>>>>> history-changing moment? To me, this is scarier than any "They" in
>>>>>>> Pynchon's writings, because this is really happening today here in our
>>>>>>> world. Pynchon's always known about these people. We all have. It's the
>>>>>>> casual acceptance of them that comes as a shock.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>     - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>
>>
>>  - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20140311/8f8bf4b7/attachment.html>