Putin's Counter Revolution

[alice malice]

What? You don't think there are people in the US, at GS, that can be
part of a solution? Look, you guys have to get over this idea that
America is corrupt and can do no good in the world. The world is
reaching out to the Americans for assistance because the Americans are
fucking smart and can help. Not that the Dutch can't. They too are
smart and capable. Not that England can't...etc...though the LIBOR
fiasco has shifted the balance back to NYC. Howabout that? What go
around come around some times.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Michael Bailey <mikebailey at gmx.us> wrote:
> "Technical financial help" from IMF, World Bank, Goldman Sacks? Shoot me
> now!
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with GMX Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The issue is not so much Crimea's independence but the future of Ukraine,
>> and more importantly, Russia's role in the region, in Europe, in the world.
>>
>>
>>
>> The US has a huge relationship with Russia. We are partners on countless
>> projects and agreements and treaties.
>>
>>
>> And the world is one market. To punish Russia, the US has to drive down
>> the price of oil, not gas.To drive down gas prices, if possible, or to
>> replace Russian gas, if possible, would take decades. But the US should
>> start on it. In fact it has. But it's oil that makes Russia turn. And the US
>> can drive down the price of oil and should.
>>
>>
>>
>> How we got here:
>>
>>
>> First, my argument is not for nuclear war, but deterrent. Has Ukraine
>> nuclear weapons, this problem would not exist. Putin would not dare send
>> troops into a nuclear armed Ukraine.
>>
>> Second, my argument is that the spread of nuclear technology and arms
>> can't be stopped. Even nations, in my example, like Brasil, that have no
>> current threat on their boarders, that are net exporters of energy, will
>> build nuclear programs. Brasil has a nuclear submarine program.
>>
>>
>>
>> Remember the Falkland Islands War? The United Kingdom and Argentina claim
>> control over the Falkland Islands. Has Argentina the bomb, things might have
>> been different.
>>
>>
>> Could the US maintain GTMO in Cuba if Castro had missiles?
>>
>>
>> The Russian military siege of Ukrainian military installations in Crimea.
>>
>>  Russian President Putin contends that Russia had responded to a political
>> coup in Ukraine, sending thousands of Russian troops to take effective
>> control of Crimea because ethnic Russians there were being set upon by
>> Ukranian extremists.
>>
>> After pressure from the US and Europe, Putin ordered troops involved in
>> military exercises inside Russia near Ukraine to return to base he conceded
>> that ousted Ukrainian President Yanukovych has no political future. He
>> agreed to support  May elections.
>>
>>
>>
>> He also claims, though the world is not naive and knows better, that the
>> armed forces in Crimea are local militias, not Russian troops, not Russian
>> trained those militias, and that the Russian military drills had nothing to
>> do with the crisis.
>>
>>
>> Putin is a murdering thug and a liar. He can't be trusted. The world must
>> punish him in the markets.
>>
>>
>> The US has offered Putin a way out; he can save face. It has offered a $1
>> billion American loan guarantee and technical financial help.
>>
>> The US accuses Russia of trying to achieve its policy goals in Crimea by
>> force: the vote took place at the end of a gun.   If Crimeans want
>> independence, then they should determine that through a referendum,  but
>> international observers should be welcomed.
>>
>>
>> Russia is not the only nation or people with a vested interest in
>> protecting the rights of minorities in Ukraine: there are Bulgarians,
>> Romanians, Hungarians, Poles and Germans in Ukraine--some of whom are EU
>> passport holders, and Ukrainian nationalists are a real problem there.
>>
>>
>>
>> What now?
>>
>>
>> A military response, from the US and Europe is not constructive and is not
>> on the table.
>>
>>
>> We don't need to escalate. War is not the answer. But must be punished for
>> his aggression.
>>
>>
>> The immediate objective is to prevent a military escalation of the crisis
>> and promote the resolution of concerns through negotiations and democratic
>> process.  Putin needs a way out, but the pressure must be kept on. So the
>> financial pressure is being applied and it is working.
>>
>> The United States is not naïve; it knows that this small problem is part
>> of larger Russian expansionist program.
>>
>>
>> The US and Europe need to defuse this one carefully, or risk giving Russia
>> greater "reason" to expand.
>>
>>
>>
>> Call it mad if you want. You are naive  if you think the world plans to
>> live in peace without nuclear weapons. It's not going to happen. The world
>> is moving in the other direction. These eapons are spreading. More nations
>> are in the club. More will be added. While non- proliferation treaties will
>> be made, vulnerable nations will need great security, and will build
>> programs.  Putin's expansionist ambitions must be punished to slow the
>> spread of weapons, but nothing will stop it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, the Ukraine would have been better off had it kept its weapons.
>>
>>
>>
>> No, you put down your weapon first.
>>
>>
>> The world is a complex and dangerous one. Do the nukes make it more so.
>> Yes and no. Call it mad, but why assume that humans are not, that they are
>> rational, that reason or common sense can make peace in the world. This is
>> not only idealistic, which I admire, but naive. A naive view of the world is
>> dangerous and muddies the waters. There are no angels, only men. And man is
>> a beast.
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4A5HsELQ7o
>>
>>
>>
> - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l