NP - Germany Won't Budge on Austerity: Economic Suicide is Character Building

[Joseph Tracy]

Austerity is a problem but so is spiraling debt. It is the German people who are resistant to largess and investment fueled by debt. 

 On the global scale there is a deep fundamental imbalance in the risks, rewards, and power of the US and the large global banks vs everyone else- nations, local businesses, unemployed, those ruled by tyrants loyal to the US.  What you call drama and blame are simply a recognition that this is one seriously fucked up, nasty and unstable empire and that the myths that led to the 2008 meltdown are not manageable by Keynesian solutions because keynesian economics is based on the myth of infinite economic "growth" as much as Friedmanism is and both disguise the ecological  and social component of wealth and both provide cover for war and exploitation as an economic plus. 
  The problem is not austerity but the unequal application of austerity. We all need to contribute to a more sustainable economic model and that in some ways requires less blind consumerism, less unnecessary and carbon fueled travel,  more vibrant local economies favoring more of the wealth managed by a healthy middle and working class. The atmospheric carbon problem is real and immediate and very costly, the saturation of our food and land with dangerous chemicals is real and costly, the global shortage of clean water is real and the global instability and inequity produced by the militarism is part of all these problems. Cell phones and Ted talks are not going to fix everything. If austerity means sharing and facing these problems and changing our habits to make a liveable planet, then I am for austerity. 

Krugman imagines a new deal economy and a new deal commitment to social justice and that is not what the Democrats have stood for. They have cast their lot with the MIC and the banksters and big Oil. this has more in common with fascism than Keynesianism. 

The idea that moral thinking has nothing to contribute to economics has not proven true in human history.

On Oct 15, 2014, at 9:46 PM, David Morris wrote:

> Your post doesn't address the question of Austerity.  Fly off to drama and blame if you want.  Austerity does include a moral facet to economics. Austerity seems to project an individual's economic wisdom onto the whole of economic theory.  Economics ain't that simple.  I mostly ascribe to Keynes re. Depression economic theory.  Krugman makes sense to me.  I am trying to advocate for the best now bandage.
> 
> All of your points are about politics and power.  I agree that Banks are carnivores.  We can't let them run wild. They think not about issues bigger that immediate profit, and ways to  keep that profit continuing forever, as big as possible, damn the consequences.
> 
> David Morris
> 
> On Wednesday, October 15, 2014, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> Highly debatable set of assertions disputed by many economists, particularly those who predicted the 2008 debacle. The " recovery' is once again fueled by questionable derivatives, and war profiteering." In a September 24th article titled “5 US Banks Each Have More Than 40 Trillion Dollars In Exposure To Derivatives, Michael Snyder warns:
> 
> Trading in derivatives is basically just a form of legalized gambling, and the “too big to fail” banks have transformed Wall Street into the largest casino in the history of the planet. When this derivatives bubble bursts (and as surely as I am writing this it will), the pain that it will cause the global economy will be greater than words can describe.
> The too-big-to-fail banks have collectively grown 37% larger since 2008. Five banks now account for 42% of all US loans, and six banks control 67% of all banking assets.
> 
> Besides their reckless derivatives gambling, these monster-sized banks have earned our distrust by being caught in a litany of frauds. In an article in Forbes titled “Big Banks and Derivatives: Why Another Financial Crisis Is Inevitable,” Steve Denning lists rigging municipal bond interest rates, LIBOR price-fixing, foreclosure abuses, money laundering, tax evasion, and misleading clients with worthless securities.This is not real economic strength but the power of an empire facing self destruction. "
> 
>  The EU was based on flawed presumptions and even Germany is having to face that.
> On Oct 14, 2014, at 6:03 AM, alice malice wrote:
> 
> > Well, one could argue that the US recovery is a jobless one, that is,
> > a recovery that exposes shrinking labor force, much of it demographic
> > baby boomer retirement etc.,  though the jury is still out on the
> > cyclical or structural causes of the shrinking labor force, and, wages
> > have not budged, but neither has inflation, though the US is not, as
> > Europe is, in a dis-inflationary and deflationary cycle...so, to make
> > a long story short, one can argue that the US has a weak recovery, one
> > that has not done all that much for wage earners, the poor, the
> > working classes,  but one can not argue that the US has no recovery.
> > We have a major recovery in place. Europe does not. And, the US has
> > put the financial crisis behind, has built a new energy policy and
> > structure, has positioned itself for additional growth. Not so in
> > Europe.  These are not nationalistic claims. Simple economics. Our
> > housing crisis is over, our banking crisis is over, our massive QE is
> > ending, our economy has recovered and, though it faces headwinds from
> > Europe, Japan, the geo-politials, it will, as the IMF says, pull the
> > world economy, not China, not the BRICS plus SA.
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 9:45 AM, Otto <ottosell at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> Can't see that "America has recovered". And your "Union" is as split
> >> as ours, economically and ethnically.
> >>
> >> 2014-10-13 15:07 GMT+02:00 David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>:
> >>> Clearly this response shows the weakness of the Euro: the "Union" is a
> >>> farce.
> >>>
> >>> But Germany won't be able to stand alone for long.  If Europe is screwed, so
> >>> is Germany.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 3:53 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
> >>> <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12.10.2014 12:09, alice malice wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Europe is screwed. And Germany is only doing what it needs to do to
> >>>> get in a better position to recover over the longer term.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Amen!
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> -
> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> 
> -
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