The right preposition? (np)

Sun Sep 21 20:23:11 CDT 2014

As "off," so "on?" Or "above-on" vs "down-off?" We could do thi all night,
right? Let's not.
I don't think it matters where U R when U go there.  These are all Spatial.

"To" implies, maybe, another dimension: Temporal.  "To" might mean
simultaneity.  But simultaneity implies a parallel space in said time,
right?

Q:  What was the first thing Creation needed to create?
A:  Space, for everything else to follow.  Then Time, so it could follow.

David Morris

On Sunday, September 21, 2014, Quizael <quizael at gmail.com> wrote:

> Youre email was so long and I kept getting interrupted, for example I am
> now on my way to Ikea against my will, but I think you mentioned being gay.
> Which, I know how offensive this is, but I cant help it, ive always thought
> you are gay.  But youre also the most brilliant contributor to this absurd
> list, if that helps.
>
> Is "off" a presupposition?  I mean preposition.  Whats the difference,
> jeez. Because really, one jerks off, not masturbate upon.  If youre jerking
> off to an image, whether it be in ones head or on screen, same thing, then
> it's to.  If you jerk off on, then to would have to be on something,
> preferably a nice set of titties.  But it could be a quality set of balls
> too.  And obviously, you can jerk off with someone, to something, on each
> other.  Probably not while standing on line, though in some very specific
> areas of this country you could.  Lets see, youre in Orlando, so probably
> not, although there are probably dudes who jerk each other off standing on
> line to watch Tiger Woods tee off. If im wrong and youre more to the east
> coast, obviously everything is admissable on the east coast of Florida.
>
>
>
>
> Sent on the new Sprint Network
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com');>>
> Date: 09/20/2014 10:38 PM (GMT-06:00)
> To: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fqmorris at gmail.com');>>
> Cc: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pynchon-l at waste.org');>>, Qui Zael <
> quizael at gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','quizael at gmail.com');>>
> Subject: Re: The right preposition? (np)
>
> Well it's a downright silly debate, anyway. But you both made some really
> good points.
>
> A little Pynchon reference, to GR where I think in a Leni passage there's
> the woman's frustration about the man's tendency to avoidance by going off
> and masturbating, a passage written before much militant feminist prose
> about the ability of women to go and do likewise, which found its way into
> Vineland and BE to be sure...
>
> Anyway I was basically just sharing my primal word-assignment, my langue
> rather than parole...as in high school before I encountered much if any
> prose or conversation about masturbation (first sighting in Summerhill by
> AS Neill, I thought it meant mass psychology from the context, learned
> differently when trying to use it in conversation) I had a night job
> cleaning offices and spotted a pinup in somebody's cubicle and thought of
> it as something one might go home, remember, and "masturbate on."
>
> "To" is universally used, so this word choice is a form of queerness, a
> deviation. The old idiom, "thinking on" something may be a cognate. In many
> other respects my choices are far more conventional, but in this wee way,
> at least, I have a solidarity with queerness.
>
> If that is jacks or better for playing my queer card,
> I want to relate my interest in exploring this difference to the Cyprian
> character in AtD, as contextually it seems to me that Pynchon's own
> predilection is manifestly not a gay one, though in GR he utilizes many
> forms of queerness to shock, because that's the kind of book it is,
> thoughtful, sure, but sensationalist... whereas the effort to incorporate
> really quite a lot of Cyprian's reality eventually brings him into a
> normative reality that includes his predilection but doesn't let him rest
> in it. That is, he isn't brought in as condiment but as an entree, with
> Pynchon sauce. Like Pynchon's women, he is presented as a best guess Terra
> incognita. And fitted into a Pynchonian schema.
>
> That is, he didn't simply find that he had a preference different to the
> majority, but was led into it by an uncle. He's capable of love, but most
> strongly loves Yashmeen. His old schoolmate Ratty holds out the prospect of
> marriage jokingly as something to avoid, something like, "take care you
> never meet up with my wife, she'll have you married off before you can
> blink." So his milieu, and Pynchon, I think, relate to his queerness as
> hetero gone astray (and jovially mocked while celebrated by Ratty, a way to
> remain in a boys-only domain, or in another passage related to a different
> schoolmate's fondness for a horse) - while recognizing his humanity, never
> able to fully understand/grok/accept his choice. If choice it is.
>
> The culmination of all this in the 3 way love scene I really don't think
> is meant to shock. It's more like Reef, not any kind of deep thinker, wants
> to include him and doesn't mind a bit of transgressiveness with his
> "lawbreaking hands"- while Yashmeen, who is all kinds of deep thinker,
> builds a place for him in her baby's creche.
>
> That the place includes humiliation, and to affirm his place in it he
> leaves wolldly life for monasticism indicates the holiness of procreation
> in AtD - to be a part of fruitfulness and multiplying changes him along the
> same lines as his compassion for the dude with the broken leg, and further!
>
> The strong suggestion that it is specifically Cyprian's mouthful of Reef's
> semen that fertilizes Yashmeen - who certainly cannot be wholly satisfied
> with a rounder like Reef - or at least that it's Cyprian's contribution in
> some way that completes the equation for her, makes her satisfied to bring
> new life into the world makes me want to mention the role of celibate
> priesthood.
>
> Not in any offensive way, but as a development in a violent world where
> people with emotional or physical damage --- or whose fancy led them in a
> different direction for whatever reason -- might not want to raise children
> but by a Tolstoyan accunulation of individual choices, developed a
> different role in which monastic communities served as places to develop
> new technology, agriculture, wine, books and the art of discourse.
>
> That non-procreative sex might be a way for people to minister unto each
> other (or themselves) is gently suggested by Cyprian to Reef when he offers
> a role reversal, but Reef in refusing brings up the phantom honor and
> Cyprian is not in a position to press the point.
>
> However, in the cartoon I linked to, I was bemused by the idea of Reef as
> knight and Cyprian as bishop, in that it did seem that Cyprian (whose
> father regarded his lifestyle choice as a failed test...but an almost
> inevitable one and not very tragic, quietly accepted like Frank's failure
> to mate up with the Native American Estrella) accumulated experiences
> leading him closer and closer to a religious role.
>
> That it was the "insolent mouth" of Cyprian that piqued Yashmeen so,
> reminds me of the many stories in Butler's Lives of the Saints where people
> refuse marriage, refuse commands, refuse comfortable arrangements in order
> to do something else which they consider worth dying for.
>
> On Sep 18, 2014 12:02 AM, "David Morris" <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fqmorris at gmail.com');>> wrote:
> >
> > Also "while."  A temporal measure.
> >
> > Pynchon has forever made borders, definitions, language, his playground
> for existential debate.  He likes his koans, (today called postmodern, but
> yesterday called a consideration on reality) on as many levels as can be
> included.  His aesthetics are expansive, and still knife sharp.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, September 17, 2014, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fqmorris at gmail.com');>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Pre-position relative to some datum, a border between things? I think
> it should mean a relationship, a state of position re. things/beings, with
> their relative mental/spatial locations.
> >>
> >> I would  love a challenge for debate while on good weed, with bear
> hairs sneeky-creeping up my butt crack.
> >>
> >> To, for, between, with.
> >>
> >> David Morris
> >>
> >> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014, Quizael <quizael at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','quizael at gmail.com');>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Not that I dont greatly admire a full blooded masturbatory discussion
> of certain propositional, or positional, erectile usages, sausages (no,
> no), but my personal preference, or performance, is to assuage the de-bate
> with drugs on a bear rug.  Then the tugs begun.
> >>>
> >>> I dont even know what a preposition is.  I suppose it presupposes
> something.  Or pre-positions, something.  A line, say. Then you are in to
> it, on it.  And by that I mean any number of lovelinesses that presuppose
> there even being a bear rug.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent on the new Sprint Network
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -------- Original message --------
> >>> From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fqmorris at gmail.com');>>
> >>> Date: 09/17/2014 9:01 PM (GMT-06:00)
> >>> To: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com');>>
> >>> Cc: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pynchon-l at waste.org');>>
> >>> Subject: Re: The right preposition? (np)
> >>>
> >>> "On" implies physical touch. "To" implies a parallel, "along
> with," more separate relation.
> >>>
> >>> "On" might be followed with "drugs," or "a bear rug."  Something
> directly felt.
> >>>
> >>> "To" would be followed by "porn," or "music."  Something more
> cerebral, less tactile.
> >>>
> >>> That's my take.
> >>>
> >>> David Morris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014, Michael Bailey <
> michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com');>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Masturbating "to" something..I guess like dancing to a song.
> >>>> The usage is nearly universal, I haven't seen any exceptions.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Even though there are so many pronouns.
> >>>> Above, near, toward, on, inspired by, with thoughts of...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Just, I have always thought it should be "masturbating 'on' some
> entity"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "To" is like, really overstating the case. The best you could
> honestly say you are masturbating with respect to someone is "towards" - am
> I not right?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Whereas "on" implies on as in on/off (the upstate downstate demon),
> plus the connotation of something that is perpetrated but tolerated, as in
> "getting horny on [someone]" also being affected by, as in getting "drunk
> (so to speak) on the mere thought of you" or the Heart song "crazy on You",
> as well as "getting it on"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Like the difference between standing on line in New York City, and
> standing in line anywhere else I've ever been, I guess it doesn't matter.
> Or does it?
>
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