Orfeo & Stupid Dog Tricks

Sun Sep 28 14:11:54 CDT 2014

I really did enjoy the book - although it was really long - I read it because I so enjoyed Palliser’s more recent “Rustication” (pub. 2013 and read earlier this year) and found out that Quincunx was more highly regarded,  so …  I know one other person who read it - she has very similar tastes to me - and she loved it.  

Modernism in Quincunx?  Postmodernism I think (circa 1989)  -  Although the outline of a collage of plots and settings and character names and types is there,  Palliser turned Dickens upside down and inside out -  he eliminated the humor (and humor is so much a part of many of Dickens’  tales),  theres no moral certainty - in fact, moral certainty is questioned.  There’s the whole theme of patterns, their use and misuse (see below).  Palliser uses a variety of narrators - Johnnie plus at least one other 1st person (Silverlight? - one of the Punch and Joan puppeteers)  and a 3rd person narrator.  The whole idea of interpretation and re-interpretation is a post modern theme.   I saw a kind of post-modern Oliver Twist / Great Expectations / Tale of Two Cities (remember Jerry the body-man?),  plus much more.  

** from The Quincunx: 
"Though it is true that we can understand nothing without finding a pattern, I must warn you ... not to impose such a pattern on the future... the concatenation of events is always more complicated and inexplicable than we like to imagine...  remember that a pattern — whether of the past or the future — is always arbitrary or partial in that there could always be a different one or a further elaboration of the same one. In the end we have to make a guess or hazard all upon the throw of the dice..."  (p. 755 - Kindle)

Have you read anything else by Palliser?  

Bekah

On Sep 28, 2014, at 11:10 AM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:

> Bekah, I absolutely loved the Quincunx when I read it quite a few years ago. I'm so glad you mentioned it, because I have yet to run into anyone who's heard of it (other than people I nagged into reading it). I was reminded of it recently when reading The Goldfinch, which I thought of as sort of neo-Dickensian. Quincunx seems like an attempt to recreate Dickens - I couldn't detect any creeping modernisms in it. Could you?
> 
> I tried reading The Flamethrowers by Kushner, but stopped halfway through (so don't feel bad if you decide to abandon Echo Maker, Keith). It starts promisingly enough, with an almost Pynchon-like change of time and place (I couldn't help think it was more than a coincidence that her fictional motorbike was called the Valera - very close to Valetta and all things V.). Like V., though, the weakest scenes were in NYC. I was reminded of Patti Smith's memoir, Just Kids, in the dispassionate protagonist who watches but withholds (from us) emotion. That, combined with the too self-consciously literary phrasing ("clouds like pancake batter spreading on a griddle" sort of thing) started to get on my nerves to the point where I couldn't read further. 
> 
> Laura
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com>
>> Sent: Sep 28, 2014 1:41 PM
>> To: Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "kelber at mindspring.com" <kelber at mindspring.com>, pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> Subject: Re: Orfeo & Stupid Dog Tricks
>> 
>> I thought The Echo Maker was just a tad above mediocre- like a “B” book.  I am interested in Kushner and Gibson among many others.  
>> 
>> I read Flynn’s Gone Girl - that was pretty good for a thriller but I would never compare her to Gibson! ??  I’ll have to look into Sharp Objects.  Fourth of July Creek by Smith Henderson was good - thriller type but with great styling -  
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/fourth-of-july-creek-by-smith-henderson/2014/06/03/85d68dbe-eb59-11e3-9f5c-9075d5508f0a_story.html
>> 
>> I read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee many years ago.  I was impressed by the change in point of view from what standard histories teach - or taught in my era - (heh).  Literary styling is not usually a big factor in my enjoyment of nonfiction (especially history books),  although it has its place.  I’m curious about the Dunbar-Orbitz book and have the Kindle version now on my wish-list. Thank you!  
>> 
>> I’m currently just finishing the very complex and ambitious “Quincunx" by Charles Palliser (1989) and found it long, long, long (781 pages of pseudo-Victoriana)  but quite interesting and rather fun for a post-modern Dickens take-off.  - it’ll get an 8.75 on my 1-10 rating scale - 
>> 
>> Bekah
>> 
>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 10:01 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I think that's it. It's interesting enough, but I keep eyeing the stacks of other books waiting for me...Henning Mankell, Jess Walter, Rachel Kushner, Faulkner, William Gibson.
>>> 
>>> Anybody read Gillian Flynn? Read Sharp Objects last week. Really good, but I had that same feeling as in Pattern Recognition, that the author suddenly decided, ok, now it's time for the ending, when I wanted more development. I guess that's my problem?
>>> 
>>> Started reading Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee, as well. Any fellow readers of this out there? The writing is pretty simplistic, but the subject matter is the thing, in this case. There's a new history of our indigenous people, "An Indigenous Peoples' History of the US", by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz. Anyone heard of it or read it?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Www.innergroovemusic.com
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 12:44 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I read it about five years ago, and can barely remember it. I didn't hate it, but didn't find it thought-provoking in any way. I like a book that either sends me off in tangents of reverie, or sucks me into its world to such an extent that I feel disoriented when it's over. Neither happened with Echo Maker.
>>>> 
>>>> Laura
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> 
>>>> From: Keith Davis 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Sep 28, 2014 11:01 AM
>>>> 
>>>> To: Qui Zael 
>>>> 
>>>> Cc: alice malice , "pynchon-l at waste.org" 
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: Orfeo & Stupid Dog Tricks
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Haven't given up on it. Still growing on me...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Www.innergroovemusic.com
>>>> On Sep 28, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Qui Zael <quizael at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Really, you didnt like Echo Maker?  Huuuuuhh.  I was so fond of that book I chatted up Powers for a while afterwords.
>>>> 
>>>> On Saturday, September 27, 2014, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm reading The Echo Maker, about 50 pages in. The writing is ok, but at this point, I'm wondering how he's going to sustain it for another 400 pages.
>>>> 
>>>> I recognize the shifts in style and tone, and it doesn't appeal to me much, though I see why he's doing it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Www.innergroovemusic.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 7:42 AM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> So, I'm reading it and, as I've not read any other book by the author,
>>>> 
>>>>> I start thinking that this one can't be his best. The style is not
>>>> 
>>>>> impressive. The shifts in tone and style are disconcerting and as big
>>>> 
>>>>> ideas hit like an earthquake they often shake the prose into rubble.
>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway, will finish it and maybe try that Echo Maker next.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks, as always for a fine recommendation.
>>>> 
>>>>> -
>>>> 
>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> 
>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>> -
>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> 
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> 
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