Man in Hightower Netflix

Tue Dec 8 16:50:11 CST 2015

As in my short follow-up Goethe quote, I say "No, In Thunder".

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the quotes, guys. The latter half of the Geertz one is really
> important. The novel erects a system of meaning that does not strive to be
> true of or exactly mimetic of anything other than itself (that's kinda
> slippery, I know...). It attempts not exactly to find and translate the
> truth of the world but rather to just be one true thing, one true world
> itself. Its gifts and insights are as much osmotic as they are cerebral.
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Kind of typing on the go but I feel like a lot of people hold to the view
>> that something in the collective western consciousness changes in early to
>> mid twentieth century (as literature they call modernism transitions to
>> postmodernism). I mean a huge amount of academic brainpower is spent
>> studying when and why that change happens. Obviously I have no idea but the
>> art seems to be as good a record of that sort of thing as any. Gotta think
>> war and weapons on the scale of both world wars but especially the latter
>> (rockets, war suddenly becoming not only total or societally ubiquitous but
>> atmospherically ubiquitous, physically/literally global) leads to a psyche
>> that grows up profoundly different.
>>
>> I mean I feel like a lot of preceding centuries post-dark-ages lend to
>> greater feelings of understanding toward the world, more feelings of
>> control over it, maybe primarily: it feels more knowable and thus more
>> controllable/utopiable. Renaissance. Ages of Reason/Enlightenment. Lots of
>> good humanistic stuff in there. Then westward expansion, the new world, and
>> (hugely) the industrial revolution all take this in horrifying new
>> directions. There are other mixed things: the rise of globalism,
>> journalism, the rise of the academy, scientific method, Freud... The
>> machinery and logic involved in the horrors of the world wars, genocide, so
>> forth, I think must have some rug-pulling effect on the human mind.
>> Suddenly everything we've been working for/toward is revealed to have
>> possibly been not only for nothing but for evil. Suddenly our belief that
>> we can understand, control, improve the world, etc., is shown to be an
>> utter fallacy. And for those of us who have built our lives on our faith in
>> that notion--what do we have left? What can we really believe in?
>>
>> This is one of the things academics whiff on regarding what you might
>> call postmodernism--how human it is. How much it's a desperate, rock-bottom
>> response to the inability to trust or believe anything. We have food, we
>> have ourselves, our communities, but what do we have to make sense of the
>> world? The art, maybe. The world of the novel, the right novel, which makes
>> no claim to objectivity, and which strives for no truth other than to
>> itself, to the experience of itself...
>>
>> Sorry to ramble. I know I can get really wind-baggy.
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2015, at 2:07 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The making sense of it, I'm wondering, for the less younger, when did
>> that sense of friction reconciling the current events of childhood with the
>> less triumphant view of it, like in GR, occur? I mean, for me there were no
>> triumphs of society growing up. My generation was born into the same world,
>> still pre-Internet, but post-Vietnam and political scandal and such. We
>> were already stained. Or is my thinking flawed in that sense, that it was a
>> more innocent (or just ignorant) time back then?
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 8, 2015, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> oops, that shoulda been "dream and nightmare" in the last sentence
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perry: The dominant recent-history / current events memes of my 1950s
>>>> and early 1960s childhood were, as you'd expect, mostly Cold War, post-WWII
>>>> US triumphalism, and space. All became problematic as the 1960s went on,
>>>> creating the perfect setup for GR as "where it all began" when I was 23.
>>>> I've been unpacking them (and their successors) ever since, with Pynchon as
>>>> constant reassurance that burlesque and pastiche, dream and pastiche, make
>>>> more sense of it than the historians do.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't doubt that a lot of the tradecraft in The Americans is
>>>>> inspired by former spy consultants but at the end of the day, like all
>>>>> historical dramas on the tube, it's pastiche. Doesn't mean it's a bad
>>>>> thing, it's a good thing, would be boring otherwise. George Smiley though
>>>>> makes the boring bits of espionage entertaining too and I like that. It's a
>>>>> cut above I agree but even he is pastiche.
>>>>>
>>>>> The meme thing Monte was talking about does make me wonder too. The
>>>>> television news of my childhood plays back like the opening credits
>>>>> montage. Big wall being hammered, princess being murdered, white Bronco
>>>>> speeding on a highway, separatists being killed and buildings blowing up. I
>>>>> was a junior in high school on 11 sep. I might not be remembering this very
>>>>> accurately but I recall the adults being much more traumatized than me and
>>>>> my peers that morning. Could just be that we were jaded teenagers, don't
>>>>> know for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, December 8, 2015, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I do like the Americans, too. and I agree some plots seem far-fetched
>>>>>> but when you hear about what went on/does go on in the intelligence
>>>>>> community in real life you do wonder sometimes. both leads are wonderful.
>>>>>> I would place George Smiley a cut above Bond and the rest. There's a
>>>>>> new bio out on LeCarre which I hope to start soon. Knowing a bit more about
>>>>>> places like Oxford and Cambridge really helped me understand alot about
>>>>>> British intelligence during the Cold War and  the cast of rogues and odd
>>>>>> ducks in LeCarre's books. The British series is of course peerless TV
>>>>>> unlike the recent movie which was utter crap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rich
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can tell you that myself and my friends who were born in the 80s
>>>>>>> are well aware that The Americans is utter fiction. To me it's like
>>>>>>> Bond or George Smiley.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 8, 2015, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder about the demographics for The Americans -- i.e., how many
>>>>>>>> 20- or 30-somethings are getting their "historical" view of the late Cold
>>>>>>>> War from it? I'm thinking of meme complexes such as the Wild West,  or
>>>>>>>> "Untouchables" crime in the Roaring Twenties (both quite limited and
>>>>>>>> transient in fact, but huge in cultural weight)... or for that matter "24"
>>>>>>>> and some other post-9/11 portrayals of the Global War on Something or Other.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think I was paying attention in the 1980s -- and I don't remember
>>>>>>>> 1% of The Americans level of espionage-related violence in and around
>>>>>>>> Washington, DC. I thought the whole point of superpower empire was that we
>>>>>>>> got to offshore the dirty work to Beirut, San Salvador, Kabul, Luanda,
>>>>>>>> etc...?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Monte Davis <
>>>>>>>> montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ooh that looks good and it reminds me. I also love the TV show
>>>>>>>>>> The Americans. It's junk television and totally preposterous at times but
>>>>>>>>>> very very entertaining.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 8, 2015, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FppW5ml4vdw
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 9:10 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Behind Winston's back the voice from the telescreen was still
>>>>>>>>>>>> babbling away about pig-iron and the overfulfilment of the Ninth Three-Year
>>>>>>>>>>>> Plan. The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound
>>>>>>>>>>>> that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked
>>>>>>>>>>>> up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which
>>>>>>>>>>>> the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of
>>>>>>>>>>>> course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given
>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any
>>>>>>>>>>>> individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched
>>>>>>>>>>>> everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire
>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that
>>>>>>>>>>>> became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was
>>>>>>>>>>>> overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.
>>>>>>>>>>>> From *1984*
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/AuthorSpecAlphaList.asp?BkNum=143>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> by George Orwell
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/AuthorTotalAlphaList.asp?AuNum=61>
>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>> Published by Unknown in 1948
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 3:23 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <
>>>>>>>>>>>> lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE TUBE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ... the ... Tube!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's poi-soning your brain!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh yes....
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's dri-ving you, insane!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's shoot-ing rays, at you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Over ev'ry-thing ya do,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It sees you in your bedroom,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And --- on th' toi-let too!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>             Yoo Hoo! The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tube....
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It knows your ev'ry thought,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, Boob, you thought you would-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> T'n get caught ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> While you were sittin' there, starin' at "The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brady Bunch,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Big fat computer jus'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Had you for lunch, now Th'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tube ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's plugged right in, to you!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Vineland, pp.336-337)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm watching too much TV too, but the thread simply asked for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this song. And isn't it amazing how Pynchon anticipated 'Smart-TV?'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 08.12.2015 05:14, John Bailey wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A lot of people are loving Mr Robot (which I haven't seen). In the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Black Mirror vein I believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And oh yeah I did like Breaking bad but that was another one whose ending
>>>>>>>>>>>>> annoyed me. The penultimate episode worked better as an ending imo. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>> filmed the first season in Albuquerque during my final year at UNM and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> compatriate played the bratty kid in the first episode so it was a mandatory
>>>>>>>>>>>>> watch. Show got harder for me to watch after moving out of Albuquerque. Was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like becoming the outsider and seeing the city with a different perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Was a dirty place for me and it became clearer when recognizing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> landmarks with a sufficient physical detachment from the place. I dunno, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> show felt really icky. Great show though overall.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 7, 2015, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Breaking Bad was superb. I don't know Luther.  Is on Netflix or Amazon?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 7, 2015, Allan Balliett <allan.balliett at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perry - What about Luther ? Or The Wire? You didn't like True Detective?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or the "recent" BBC Sherlock Holmes shows? I agree about Man in the High
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Castle. Too many of the binge tv series get sidetracked into unimportant
>>>>>>>>>>>>> character stories. (Good to see that Luther is getting a second coming as an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> American series. If its anything like the clip I saw on Late Night the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> night, it's going to be a good un.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Allan in WV
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to teevee, sopranos and mad men spoiled me. Nothing else
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has really satisfied me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 7, 2015, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't make it through the first episode.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 7, 2015, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ten episodes in, and just tolerating it. Way too slowly paced and full
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of irrelevant personal drama interactions.  I haven't read the book, but I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure the plot is more important in the book than it is in this show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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