Purely out of curiosity...

[Steven Koteff]

Yeah not sure I understand that line of reasoning exactly.

I do think it's probably useful to remind ourselves that even the most
egregious/aggressive lawsuit from the kid['s family{'s lawyers}] does not
necessarily mean the kid himself was, at clock-time, trying to do anything
along the lines of inciting panic or conning the school system for cash
or...inviting racist/reactionary treatment? (Is that something we really
want to accuse someone of?)

Anyway I remember how much of a contrarian asshole I was as a teenager.
Even (probably especially) in this climate, if I was Muslim, I probably
would've gone way far out of my way to get my teachers, or anyone else, to
call me a terrorist (especially if it was in the confines of a place I
assumed I was safe, like school).

(Why did Will Hunting choose the wrench, and so forth.)

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:54 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> This whole stupid discussion begins with this statement, which I've never
> heard before, and is of dubious veracity:
>
> "Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and took
> them to school, he broke the law."
>
> Chapter and verse, please?
>
> David Morris
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Peter M. Fitzpatrick <petopoet at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Peter M. Fitzpatrick <petopoet at gmail.com>
>> Date: Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: Purely out of curiosity...
>> To: ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>     I am not quite sure about this particular case, but as an American, I
>> am aware that the "zero tolerance" policy has been used to replace
>> education with discipline in not a few cases that smack of the truly
>> bizarre and Orwellian, if not completely scripted from some absurdist
>> scriptwriter in the sky.Case in point, when I lived in a Atlanta some years
>> ago, the news broke that a young 6th grade black girl was facing severe
>> disciplinary actions for bringing a "Tweety-bird" keychain to school.
>> "Tweety-bird", the cartoon character from, I believe, Porky Pig, was the
>> culprit. How or why or what they were thinking that she would do with this
>> nefarious bird replica, I do not venture to guess.
>>     Ahmed's case is perhaps more understandable, but he is innocent
>> before guilty, even if he is considered a child in the eyes of the law.
>> Authoritarianism in the name of safety should not substitute the sanctity
>> and value of  freedom, regardless of how dangerous the times might be. If
>> he was a white teenager, I don't believe the "terrorism" image would
>> immediately come to mind. Level heads should prevent a possibly misguided
>> adventure being misconstrued as a nefarious terrorist plot. This will
>> probably follow him for the rest of his life now.
>>      Again, what is never brought up again after perhaps a quick mention
>> or two, the mental health problem in this country is woefully underfunded
>> by insurance companies and difficult for moralists to face. Many of the
>> school shooters were and are mentally ill, perhaps criminally so, but if
>> involved parents, teachers, and yes, medical professionals, were more
>> involved and concerned, these tragedies could perhaps be averted. No one
>> wants to be mentally ill. There are wonderful drugs that can treat the
>> disease. But the arcane bureaucracies of school, hospitals, and insurance
>> companies almost guarantees that none of these kids will get these drugs.
>> Personally, I believe that even so called "terrorists" meet the standards
>> of being mentally ill, at least by the standards of in most societies, or
>> at least those that are not sociopaths and criminals in the first place. I
>> am aware that leads into the quandary of mental illness vs. criminality,
>> rehabilitation vs. punishment, and ultimately free will vs. determinism,
>> something we cannot solve in discussion list.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:13 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a teacher, a club
>>> adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and did the clock fit
>>> the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and bring it to school?
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock or make a
>>> project, or in any way bring something to school that was part of an
>>> assignment from any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was not
>>> show and tell. It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it and
>>> put in in a box and brought it to school.
>>>
>>> Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>>>
>>> Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and
>>> took them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys, and
>>> sometimes 14 year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a box,
>>> a plastic gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc..., even on
>>> Halloween is dangerous and against the law, young people do make these
>>> kinds of mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in school as
>>> school is the safest place in the world for students. Obviously, doing so
>>> in the street may get one killed by a police officer or even a gun toting
>>> citizen.
>>> In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated, handcuffed,
>>> probably, and asked to write a statement explaining his or her intentions
>>> and the police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This is the
>>> law. It matters not the race or religion of the child.
>>>
>>> From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an experienced
>>> teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist, but the current
>>> mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare act of....welll
>>> not courage, but decency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt Experience <
>>> newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a store bought
>>>> clock and put it back together, beyond people online pointing out that
>>>> doing so is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the child acted as
>>>> maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to believe, this means
>>>> his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his teachers and police would
>>>> confuse a circuit board and some wires with something that can explode. If
>>>> our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to be the case, here),
>>>> then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million dollar fine.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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