Purely out of curiosity...

[ish mailian]

"experts"

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:58 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:

> No. I didn't start the discussion. As stated in my post, I don't have all
> the facts, so I said, but as far as I can tell, the boy broke the law. I
> don't support the zero tolerance policy or the law that books kids for
> bringing a toy bomb or toy gun to school. That said, as far I an tell, and
> there have been lots of cases of this in Texas and in other US states, a
> high school boy who does what he did will be arrested and charged with
> breaking a law. It's insane, but that is how it is in schools today. I
> think.
>
> Some here seem to be experts so....but I would think that teachers who
> teach Brown kids, Muslim kids, Black kids..would be trained and educated in
> how not to judge their students by their names and facial features. And,
> experienced teachers are, well, experienced so they know, bot only that the
> suspension and arrest percentages of children, and especially boys of color
> are dangerously high, not because teachers are idiots or racist but because
> they have lost the struggle to the idiots and bigots and experts.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This whole stupid discussion begins with this statement, which I've never
>> heard before, and is of dubious veracity:
>>
>> "Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and
>> took them to school, he broke the law."
>>
>> Chapter and verse, please?
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Peter M. Fitzpatrick <petopoet at gmail.com
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Peter M. Fitzpatrick <petopoet at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Purely out of curiosity...
>>> To: ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>     I am not quite sure about this particular case, but as an American,
>>> I am aware that the "zero tolerance" policy has been used to replace
>>> education with discipline in not a few cases that smack of the truly
>>> bizarre and Orwellian, if not completely scripted from some absurdist
>>> scriptwriter in the sky.Case in point, when I lived in a Atlanta some years
>>> ago, the news broke that a young 6th grade black girl was facing severe
>>> disciplinary actions for bringing a "Tweety-bird" keychain to school.
>>> "Tweety-bird", the cartoon character from, I believe, Porky Pig, was the
>>> culprit. How or why or what they were thinking that she would do with this
>>> nefarious bird replica, I do not venture to guess.
>>>     Ahmed's case is perhaps more understandable, but he is innocent
>>> before guilty, even if he is considered a child in the eyes of the law.
>>> Authoritarianism in the name of safety should not substitute the sanctity
>>> and value of  freedom, regardless of how dangerous the times might be. If
>>> he was a white teenager, I don't believe the "terrorism" image would
>>> immediately come to mind. Level heads should prevent a possibly misguided
>>> adventure being misconstrued as a nefarious terrorist plot. This will
>>> probably follow him for the rest of his life now.
>>>      Again, what is never brought up again after perhaps a quick mention
>>> or two, the mental health problem in this country is woefully underfunded
>>> by insurance companies and difficult for moralists to face. Many of the
>>> school shooters were and are mentally ill, perhaps criminally so, but if
>>> involved parents, teachers, and yes, medical professionals, were more
>>> involved and concerned, these tragedies could perhaps be averted. No one
>>> wants to be mentally ill. There are wonderful drugs that can treat the
>>> disease. But the arcane bureaucracies of school, hospitals, and insurance
>>> companies almost guarantees that none of these kids will get these drugs.
>>> Personally, I believe that even so called "terrorists" meet the standards
>>> of being mentally ill, at least by the standards of in most societies, or
>>> at least those that are not sociopaths and criminals in the first place. I
>>> am aware that leads into the quandary of mental illness vs. criminality,
>>> rehabilitation vs. punishment, and ultimately free will vs. determinism,
>>> something we cannot solve in discussion list.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:13 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a teacher, a club
>>>> adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and did the clock fit
>>>> the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and bring it to school?
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock or make a
>>>> project, or in any way bring something to school that was part of an
>>>> assignment from any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was not
>>>> show and tell. It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it and
>>>> put in in a box and brought it to school.
>>>>
>>>> Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>>>>
>>>> Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and
>>>> took them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys, and
>>>> sometimes 14 year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a box,
>>>> a plastic gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc..., even on
>>>> Halloween is dangerous and against the law, young people do make these
>>>> kinds of mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in school as
>>>> school is the safest place in the world for students. Obviously, doing so
>>>> in the street may get one killed by a police officer or even a gun toting
>>>> citizen.
>>>> In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated, handcuffed,
>>>> probably, and asked to write a statement explaining his or her intentions
>>>> and the police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This is the
>>>> law. It matters not the race or religion of the child.
>>>>
>>>> From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an experienced
>>>> teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist, but the current
>>>> mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare act of....welll
>>>> not courage, but decency.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt Experience <
>>>> newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a store bought
>>>>> clock and put it back together, beyond people online pointing out that
>>>>> doing so is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the child acted as
>>>>> maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to believe, this means
>>>>> his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his teachers and police would
>>>>> confuse a circuit board and some wires with something that can explode. If
>>>>> our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to be the case, here),
>>>>> then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million dollar fine.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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