Purely out of curiosity...

[Mark Kohut]

If size matters so do facts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mohamed_clock_incident

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Turns out that clock was explosive after all.
>
>
> On Friday, December 11, 2015, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "experts"
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:58 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> No. I didn't start the discussion. As stated in my post, I don't have all
>>> the facts, so I said, but as far as I can tell, the boy broke the law. I
>>> don't support the zero tolerance policy or the law that books kids for
>>> bringing a toy bomb or toy gun to school. That said, as far I an tell, and
>>> there have been lots of cases of this in Texas and in other US states, a
>>> high school boy who does what he did will be arrested and charged with
>>> breaking a law. It's insane, but that is how it is in schools today. I
>>> think.
>>>
>>> Some here seem to be experts so....but I would think that teachers who
>>> teach Brown kids, Muslim kids, Black kids..would be trained and educated in
>>> how not to judge their students by their names and facial features. And,
>>> experienced teachers are, well, experienced so they know, bot only that the
>>> suspension and arrest percentages of children, and especially boys of color
>>> are dangerously high, not because teachers are idiots or racist but because
>>> they have lost the struggle to the idiots and bigots and experts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This whole stupid discussion begins with this statement, which I've
>>>> never heard before, and is of dubious veracity:
>>>>
>>>> "Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and
>>>> took them to school, he broke the law."
>>>>
>>>> Chapter and verse, please?
>>>>
>>>> David Morris
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Peter M. Fitzpatrick
>>>> <petopoet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>> From: Peter M. Fitzpatrick <petopoet at gmail.com>
>>>>> Date: Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Purely out of curiosity...
>>>>> To: ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     I am not quite sure about this particular case, but as an American,
>>>>> I am aware that the "zero tolerance" policy has been used to replace
>>>>> education with discipline in not a few cases that smack of the truly bizarre
>>>>> and Orwellian, if not completely scripted from some absurdist scriptwriter
>>>>> in the sky.Case in point, when I lived in a Atlanta some years ago, the news
>>>>> broke that a young 6th grade black girl was facing severe disciplinary
>>>>> actions for bringing a "Tweety-bird" keychain to school. "Tweety-bird", the
>>>>> cartoon character from, I believe, Porky Pig, was the culprit. How or why or
>>>>> what they were thinking that she would do with this nefarious bird replica,
>>>>> I do not venture to guess.
>>>>>     Ahmed's case is perhaps more understandable, but he is innocent
>>>>> before guilty, even if he is considered a child in the eyes of the law.
>>>>> Authoritarianism in the name of safety should not substitute the sanctity
>>>>> and value of  freedom, regardless of how dangerous the times might be. If he
>>>>> was a white teenager, I don't believe the "terrorism" image would
>>>>> immediately come to mind. Level heads should prevent a possibly misguided
>>>>> adventure being misconstrued as a nefarious terrorist plot. This will
>>>>> probably follow him for the rest of his life now.
>>>>>      Again, what is never brought up again after perhaps a quick
>>>>> mention or two, the mental health problem in this country is woefully
>>>>> underfunded by insurance companies and difficult for moralists to face. Many
>>>>> of the school shooters were and are mentally ill, perhaps criminally so, but
>>>>> if involved parents, teachers, and yes, medical professionals, were more
>>>>> involved and concerned, these tragedies could perhaps be averted. No one
>>>>> wants to be mentally ill. There are wonderful drugs that can treat the
>>>>> disease. But the arcane bureaucracies of school, hospitals, and insurance
>>>>> companies almost guarantees that none of these kids will get these drugs.
>>>>> Personally, I believe that even so called "terrorists" meet the standards of
>>>>> being mentally ill, at least by the standards of in most societies, or at
>>>>> least those that are not sociopaths and criminals in the first place. I am
>>>>> aware that leads into the quandary of mental illness vs. criminality,
>>>>> rehabilitation vs. punishment, and ultimately free will vs. determinism,
>>>>> something we cannot solve in discussion list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:13 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a teacher, a club
>>>>>> adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and did the clock fit the
>>>>>> assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and bring it to school?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock or make a
>>>>>> project, or in any way bring something to school that was part of an
>>>>>> assignment from any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was not
>>>>>> show and tell. It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it and
>>>>>> put in in a box and brought it to school.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and
>>>>>> took them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys, and sometimes
>>>>>> 14 year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a box, a plastic
>>>>>> gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc..., even on Halloween is
>>>>>> dangerous and against the law, young people do make these kinds of mistakes,
>>>>>> from time to time. Best if they make them in school as school is the safest
>>>>>> place in the world for students. Obviously, doing so in the street may get
>>>>>> one killed by a police officer or even a gun toting citizen.
>>>>>> In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated, handcuffed,
>>>>>> probably, and asked to write a statement explaining his or her intentions
>>>>>> and the police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This is the law.
>>>>>> It matters not the race or religion of the child.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an experienced
>>>>>> teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist, but the current
>>>>>> mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare act of....welll not
>>>>>> courage, but decency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt Experience
>>>>>> <newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a store bought
>>>>>>> clock and put it back together, beyond people online pointing out that doing
>>>>>>> so is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the child acted as
>>>>>>> maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to believe, this means
>>>>>>> his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his teachers and police would
>>>>>>> confuse a circuit board and some wires with something that can explode. If
>>>>>>> our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to be the case, here),
>>>>>>> then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million dollar fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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