Purely out of curiosity...

Fri Dec 11 12:22:06 CST 2015

Apparently he didn't break a law or a school policy or do anything. He
wasn't charged with breaking any laws or policies.

So, until the next child is handcuffed and interrogated by a school and the
police ....for not breaking the law.

So maybe 15 cool ones is not too much for a family that was damaged by the
madness of Texas and America. And maybe the boy, who was made a hero for a
while, is now made a goat, an example of how not to use your fifteen
minutes, or hours of gone viral fame?

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:43 PM, The Jonathon Hunt Experience <
newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:

> What law did he break? How many dark-skinned kids in America that break
> laws are released and never charged with anything?
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:39 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> How is it a straw man?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:25 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Straw Man: "but as far as I can tell, the boy broke the law."
>>>
>>> Translation: "I pulled this out of my ass."
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:58 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No. I didn't start the discussion. As stated in my post, I don't have
>>>> all the facts, so I said, but as far as I can tell, the boy broke the law.
>>>> I don't support the zero tolerance policy or the law that books kids for
>>>> bringing a toy bomb or toy gun to school. That said, as far I an tell, and
>>>> there have been lots of cases of this in Texas and in other US states, a
>>>> high school boy who does what he did will be arrested and charged with
>>>> breaking a law. It's insane, but that is how it is in schools today. I
>>>> think.
>>>>
>>>> Some here seem to be experts so....but I would think that teachers who
>>>> teach Brown kids, Muslim kids, Black kids..would be trained and educated in
>>>> how not to judge their students by their names and facial features. And,
>>>> experienced teachers are, well, experienced so they know, bot only that the
>>>> suspension and arrest percentages of children, and especially boys of color
>>>> are dangerously high, not because teachers are idiots or racist but because
>>>> they have lost the struggle to the idiots and bigots and experts.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:54 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This whole stupid discussion begins with this statement, which I've
>>>>> never heard before, and is of dubious veracity:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and
>>>>> took them to school, he broke the law."
>>>>>
>>>>> Chapter and verse, please?
>>>>>
>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Peter M. Fitzpatrick <
>>>>> petopoet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>> From: Peter M. Fitzpatrick <petopoet at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Purely out of curiosity...
>>>>>> To: ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I am not quite sure about this particular case, but as an
>>>>>> American, I am aware that the "zero tolerance" policy has been used to
>>>>>> replace education with discipline in not a few cases that smack of the
>>>>>> truly bizarre and Orwellian, if not completely scripted from some absurdist
>>>>>> scriptwriter in the sky.Case in point, when I lived in a Atlanta some years
>>>>>> ago, the news broke that a young 6th grade black girl was facing severe
>>>>>> disciplinary actions for bringing a "Tweety-bird" keychain to school.
>>>>>> "Tweety-bird", the cartoon character from, I believe, Porky Pig, was the
>>>>>> culprit. How or why or what they were thinking that she would do with this
>>>>>> nefarious bird replica, I do not venture to guess.
>>>>>>     Ahmed's case is perhaps more understandable, but he is innocent
>>>>>> before guilty, even if he is considered a child in the eyes of the law.
>>>>>> Authoritarianism in the name of safety should not substitute the sanctity
>>>>>> and value of  freedom, regardless of how dangerous the times might be. If
>>>>>> he was a white teenager, I don't believe the "terrorism" image would
>>>>>> immediately come to mind. Level heads should prevent a possibly misguided
>>>>>> adventure being misconstrued as a nefarious terrorist plot. This will
>>>>>> probably follow him for the rest of his life now.
>>>>>>      Again, what is never brought up again after perhaps a quick
>>>>>> mention or two, the mental health problem in this country is woefully
>>>>>> underfunded by insurance companies and difficult for moralists to face.
>>>>>> Many of the school shooters were and are mentally ill, perhaps criminally
>>>>>> so, but if involved parents, teachers, and yes, medical professionals, were
>>>>>> more involved and concerned, these tragedies could perhaps be averted. No
>>>>>> one wants to be mentally ill. There are wonderful drugs that can treat the
>>>>>> disease. But the arcane bureaucracies of school, hospitals, and insurance
>>>>>> companies almost guarantees that none of these kids will get these drugs.
>>>>>> Personally, I believe that even so called "terrorists" meet the standards
>>>>>> of being mentally ill, at least by the standards of in most societies, or
>>>>>> at least those that are not sociopaths and criminals in the first place. I
>>>>>> am aware that leads into the quandary of mental illness vs. criminality,
>>>>>> rehabilitation vs. punishment, and ultimately free will vs. determinism,
>>>>>> something we cannot solve in discussion list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:13 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a teacher, a
>>>>>>> club adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and did the clock
>>>>>>> fit the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and bring it to
>>>>>>> school?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock or make a
>>>>>>> project, or in any way bring something to school that was part of an
>>>>>>> assignment from any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was not
>>>>>>> show and tell. It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it and
>>>>>>> put in in a box and brought it to school.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and
>>>>>>> took them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys, and
>>>>>>> sometimes 14 year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a box,
>>>>>>> a plastic gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc..., even on
>>>>>>> Halloween is dangerous and against the law, young people do make these
>>>>>>> kinds of mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in school as
>>>>>>> school is the safest place in the world for students. Obviously, doing so
>>>>>>> in the street may get one killed by a police officer or even a gun toting
>>>>>>> citizen.
>>>>>>> In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated, handcuffed,
>>>>>>> probably, and asked to write a statement explaining his or her intentions
>>>>>>> and the police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This is the
>>>>>>> law. It matters not the race or religion of the child.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an
>>>>>>> experienced teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist, but
>>>>>>> the current mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare act
>>>>>>> of....welll not courage, but decency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt Experience <
>>>>>>> newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a store bought
>>>>>>>> clock and put it back together, beyond people online pointing out that
>>>>>>>> doing so is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the child acted as
>>>>>>>> maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to believe, this means
>>>>>>>> his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his teachers and police would
>>>>>>>> confuse a circuit board and some wires with something that can explode. If
>>>>>>>> our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to be the case, here),
>>>>>>>> then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million dollar fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Are you hip to Easter Island?
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20151211/9ea3c79b/attachment.html>