Purely out of curiosity...

[Keith Davis]

You go, man!

Www.innergroovemusic.com

On Dec 12, 2015, at 12:22 AM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:

>> You've emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.'
>> Why is that? To indicate that it is an unbiased take (as opposed
>> to a really political, say, blog) or to imply that it is more
>> stringently fact checked or...
> 
> I mention it because, as someone who was "internet famous" between
> 1999 and 2006 (peak years 2000-2003) as sole author and content
> provider of a quite successful proto-blog email newsletter (The Daily
> Dirt), I am intimately aware of and particularly sensitive to the
> (ahem) "liberties" taken by the reactionary right-wing side of the
> blog-and-comment-o-sphere. I spent much of my seven years as Jerky
> LeBoeuf (coinciding as they did with the Dubya preznitcy) debunking
> and fact-checking the likes of Drudge Report, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh,
> Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, and all the rest of the
> then-nascent ultra-conservative first-gen blog-rolls. So I would hate
> to be mistaken as one of those. On the other hand, I am currently on
> the edge of despair due to so many of my former friends, readers and
> other allies behaving as left-leaning versions of the assholes I
> mention above, ever ready to assume the worst of any institution (or
> cis-gendered white male), accept any and all claims to victimhood as
> valid, and basically display the same kind of ravening, drool-flecked
> howling, pack mentality, as if they've torn a page from the main
> stylebook of the turn-of-the-millennium Conservative Movementarians.
> 
>> It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-
>> (and third-, and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved
>> has so much at stake now (even if the teachers acted 100%
>> rightly, they're now in a situation where they are probably
>> compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest, just for protection).
> 
> Yes. And that's why I always try to reason these things out for
> myself, with as cool a head as humanly possible. In this case, for
> instance, I asked myself, would it be REASONABLE for a teacher to
> believe that someone who brought such a thing into class was up to
> some kind of mischief? As soon as I saw the "clock" in question... it
> was clear to me that, OF COURSE the teachers were right to be
> suspicious. The thing could not possibly look less like a clock. The
> only way it could look more like a cliche'd action movie bomb was if
> it was a bowling ball with a firecracker sticking out of the top. So,
> next step for me, if the teachers were correct in SUSPECTING POSSIBLE
> BAD INTENT, then were they right to call in the police? It turns out,
> considering the school district's zero tolerance policy, they probably
> didn't even have a choice. Same as if they'd caught him with booze, or
> a joint, or if he'd pinched a female student's bottom and she'd
> complained... the authorities HAD TO BE called in. And they were. Now,
> that leads us to the question of whether the authorities did anything
> wrong by taking Ahmed into custody, or putting him in handcuffs, or
> keeping him from his parents for an hour and a half. And you know
> what? There is NO legislation that prevents police from detaining or
> handcuffing a 14 year old. This should be patently obvious to anyone
> who went through junior high school (as it was to me, as I myself have
> personally witnessed teacher and police behavior towards 13/14/15 year
> olds that was FAR more egregious and unjust than what poor Ahmed went
> through). But apparently most of the members of the media who have
> been reporting on this story were hot-house flowers who grew up in
> social justice enclaves where they were taught (hahaha) that life
> should be "fair" or something, or that if you have a problem with
> authority, you can always sue the bastards. Well, maybe that's true. I
> certainly hope it isn't, because for the Muhammed family to get one
> thin dime out of this would be a travesty of justice and a blow
> against common sense, in my opinion as an anti-racist, anti-fascist,
> authority-skeptic liberal of long standing.
> 
> Sincerely;
> J
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't mean to imply anything. Just thanking you for doing the research--I
>> am in that gray area of being curious enough to want to know the timeline
>> without being curious enough (or having enough time) to do much digging
>> myself.
>> 
>> And also, because you seem much more up on this than I am, I am curious to
>> hear your takeaway.
>> 
>> I think if everything in that article is right then it kind of seems like it
>> was at best incredibly ignorant and irresponsible on the part of the dad and
>> the son. At worst (and the direction it seems to lean, if the article is
>> right) possibly a deliberately provocative act on the part of the father. To
>> what end? Is it just about money and attention? I actually think, if the
>> provocation is deliberate, it betrays not just run-of-the-mill selfish
>> motives but also personal disturbance on the part of the father, and the kid
>> too.
>> 
>> But all that comes with the caveat that the account is true. You've
>> emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.' Why is that? To indicate
>> that it is an unbiased take (as opposed to a really political, say, blog) or
>> to imply that it is more stringently fact checked or...
>> 
>> It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-(and third-,
>> and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved has so much at stake now (even
>> if the teachers acted 100% rightly, they're now in a situation where they
>> are probably compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest, just
>> for protection).
>> 
>> I read that article saying that the police said something, but at least half
>> of me is thinking I should be asking, "But who says the police said that?"
>> 
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here's a handy timeline from the ArtVoice blog. The facts all check
>>> out (meaning the author hasn't misrepresented the mostly mainstream
>>> articles to which he refers):
>>> 
>>> On the morning of Sept 14, Mohamed El Hassan Mohamed drove his son
>>> Ahmed to school and at that time, according to NBC Dallas/Ft.Worth,
>>> Mohamed "encouraged him to demonstrate his gift of technology" at the
>>> school. He was referring to a small plain metal case, inside of which
>>> contained the hastily arranged and unshielded electronic components of
>>> a 1980's Micronta digital alarm clock. A device Ahmed would repeatedly
>>> insist he threw together the night before in just 15 minutes from of
>>> "scraps" laying around his house, a device that he himself considered
>>> to appear suspicious and threatening.
>>> 
>>> Defying common sense, it appears that Mohamed, the man who runs the
>>> National Reform Party of Sudan, who is considered an enlightened
>>> scholar in Sudan, who ran for its presidency twice in the last 5
>>> years, whose daughter was suspended from school for a bomb threat,
>>> whose son was detained and suspended for multiple disciplinary
>>> problems and electronic pranks, in a town recently rocked by a double
>>> murder honor killing and lies 25 minutes from the Garland TX Jihadi
>>> attack, on the first day back to school after the anniversary of 9-11,
>>> encourages his son to bring in a nondescript metal case with a timer
>>> and loose wiring inside without being asked to by any teacher, a
>>> device even his son admits looked threatening and suspicious.
>>> 
>>> Next we are told by Ahmed that he shows the device to his 1st period
>>> Science teacher who sensitively and politely tells him the device is
>>> "nice" but it looks like a bomb and so he should put it away and not
>>> take it out and show it to anyone else at school.
>>> 
>>> According to Mark Cuban who spoke with an Irving resident who's friend
>>> is a teacher in Mac Arthur H.S., Ahmed proceeded to show off the
>>> device to each teacher all the way to 6th period where in English
>>> class, Ahmed claims to have plugged the device into the wall outlet
>>> and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class "to show a friend".
>>> When the teacher reacted to the disruption he "unplugged it right
>>> away". After showing the English teacher what caused the disruption,
>>> the teacher told him it looks like a bomb, that it is making her
>>> nervous and would make others nervous, and to put it away in his
>>> backpack, to which Ahmed said "I don't think it looks like a bomb". At
>>> the end of class the device was confiscated and the Principal alerted.
>>> The Irving school system adheres to a zero tolerance policy regarding
>>> threatening devices, and being that the possession of such a device
>>> with intent to alarm others is a criminal offense in Texas, the police
>>> were called to question Ahmed and determine what his intentions were.
>>> Later 3 teachers would sign a complaint to the police about a hoax
>>> bomb, as the Principal decided to contact the police on the issue.
>>> 
>>> The police arrived at school and entered the conference room where
>>> Ahmed was detained and one officer claimed "that is who I thought it
>>> was". Likely referring to Ahmed's past troubles and his family's
>>> notoriety. The police questioned Ahmed, and claimed he was not
>>> forthcoming, passive aggressive, and would not directly answer their
>>> questions. They decided to arrest him for possession of a hoax bomb
>>> and bring him to the police station where they would continue their
>>> investigation to determine whether he intended to raise alarm with his
>>> device, a Class A misdemeanor.
>>> 
>>> Somehow or other it appears Ahmed's 18 year old sister Eyman found out
>>> that Ahmed was being taken to the police station. There is an iconic
>>> photo of Ahmed in handcuffs taken by Eyman, and some captions under
>>> that photo indicate it was taken at the police station. This implies
>>> his sister arrived shortly after Ahmed arrived, because he would not
>>> have been in handcuffs after he was released without charge an hour
>>> later. There is also speculation Eyman took the photo as Ahmed was
>>> leaving the school in handcuffs.
>>> 
>>> Ahmed's father claims the first he heard of his son's problem was from
>>> a phone call from the police. We do not know if he arrived with or
>>> separate from Eyman. It is hard to believe Eyman heard about the
>>> incident and arrived at the police station to take that photo and
>>> never alerted her father. If Eyman only knew through her father, this
>>> would mean they both arrived at the station in time to see Ahmed
>>> before he went in a private room for questioning. Improbable but
>>> possible. The father's account follows.
>>> 
>>> **The first he heard of it was when he received a call from police,
>>> who said his son was being charged with having a hoax bomb, Mohamed
>>> said.
>>> 
>>> He rushed to the police station, where he saw his son "surrounded by
>>> five police and he was handcuffed," the father said. Ahmed told his
>>> father he'd asked to phone him but the police told him he could not
>>> because he was under arrest, Mohamed said.
>>> 
>>> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me, 'No,
>>> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and asking
>>> him questions," Mohamed said. "I asked if I could see the thing they
>>> were calling a bomb. The police never let me even see it but I knew
>>> what my son brought to school. It was an alarm clock that he made. He
>>> wakes up with it most mornings. **
>>> 
>>> Here we have Mohamed contradicting his son's claim the device was
>>> hastily thrown together the night before. His credibility as a
>>> responsible parent and supervisor of his child already strained to the
>>> limit, he goes on to claim, "my son was hurt and tortured and arrested
>>> and mistreated in front of his friends at school".
>>> 
>>> After further questioning, the police could not find anything in
>>> Ahmed's statements to indicate he intended to cause alarm, and
>>> released him without charge.
>>> 
>>> The family went on to set off a social media firestorm portraying
>>> Ahmed as persecuted and harassed, "hurt and tortured" by Islamophobic
>>> xenophobic, vindictive officials from the school and police station,
>>> holding press conferences where suddenly their son was able to speak
>>> in great detail about the incident, as opposed to the "name rank and
>>> serial number" routine he gave the police.
>>> 
>>> There was never a moment where Mohamed El Hassan expressed even a
>>> small fraction of responsibility as the parent the person at the
>>> center of this incident. No apology or humility, only strident
>>> arrogant and slanderous accusations issued from him. Even today as
>>> Ahmed has been seen laughing, joking, and smiling all across the USA
>>> as he visits dozens of august institutions and famous talk shows that
>>> roll out the red carpet for the self proclaimed "inventor of a clock",
>>> his family insists Ahmed is "severely traumatized" and "lacking
>>> appetite and ability to sleep". Furthermore Mohamed refused to accept
>>> the police repeated offer to come pick up the device, while hiring
>>> lawyers to sue the police, in part, for refusing to release the device
>>> to the family. The family has refused to sign a waiver allowing the
>>> school and police from telling their side of the story to the media,
>>> while they continue to offer a contradictory version that evolves
>>> daily, along side baseless and slanderous accusations against
>>> officials.
>>> 
>>> According to Ahmed's own words, his authority figure (Science teacher)
>>> confirmed Ahmed's own perception and told him his device looked like a
>>> bomb and not to show it to anyone. Ahmed then set the alarm on the
>>> device in the middle of class. He appears to have had the intent to
>>> evoke some reaction. His actions were reckless, and arguably criminal.
>>> Yet the media continues to portray him as a persecuted victim, even as
>>> he and his family stood in NYC with the Mayor who proclaimed 9/29/2015
>>> as "Ahmed day", before flying to the Middle East where they met with
>>> various community and political leaders (including more than one with
>>> a history of conducting large-scale massacres of non-combatants).
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> And for those of you who are wondering "Where on Earth did he ever ADMIT
>>>> that his creation might look SUSPICIOUS or LIKE A THREAT, Mister Smarty
>>>> Pants?!", kindly jump to the 1 minute, 30 second point on this video to
>>>> see
>>>> where he basically admits that he knew the thing would probably freak
>>>> people
>>>> out.
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bGeBk8Fus0
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think a more pertinent question might be, please cite where it's
>>>>> illegal
>>>>> for police to detain and question 14 year olds.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The teachers followed the rules, and the people who best know this kid
>>>>> --
>>>>> the teachers who work with him on a daily basis (you know... teachers?
>>>>> those
>>>>> underpaid heroes we love so much? the same people some of you are now
>>>>> willing to throw under the bus because it suits your OMGRACISM
>>>>> worldview?)
>>>>> thought his behavior merited action.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Before I bring you guys the most complete narrative I can put together
>>>>> of
>>>>> what happened (based on mainstream news sources), HERE is a video
>>>>> showing
>>>>> what it took to "invent" the clock that he "invented"
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzQjS6tn4w
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:45 PM, <rbollinger at austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please cite your statute governing reassembled clock parts...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Rob Bollinger
>>>>>> Austin TX
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ---- ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a teacher, a
>>>>>>> club
>>>>>>> adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and did the clock
>>>>>>> fit
>>>>>>> the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and bring it to
>>>>>>> school?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock or make a
>>>>>>> project,
>>>>>>> or in any way bring something to school that was part of an
>>>>>>> assignment
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was not show and
>>>>>>> tell.
>>>>>>> It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it and put in
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> box and brought it to school.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a box and
>>>>>>> took
>>>>>>> them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys, and
>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>> 14
>>>>>>> year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a box, a
>>>>>>> plastic
>>>>>>> gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc..., even on
>>>>>>> Halloween
>>>>>>> is dangerous and against the law, young people do make these kinds
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in school as
>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the safest place in the world for students. Obviously, doing so in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> street may get one killed by a police officer or even a gun toting
>>>>>>> citizen.
>>>>>>> In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated, handcuffed,
>>>>>>> probably,
>>>>>>> and asked to write a statement explaining his or her intentions and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This is the law.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> matters not the race or religion of the child.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an
>>>>>>> experienced
>>>>>>> teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist, but the
>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>> mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare act
>>>>>>> of....welll
>>>>>>> not courage, but decency.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt Experience <
>>>>>>> newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a store
>>>>>>>> bought
>>>>>>>> clock
>>>>>>>> and put it back together, beyond people online pointing out that
>>>>>>>> doing so
>>>>>>>> is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the child acted as
>>>>>>>> maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to believe,
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>> his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his teachers and
>>>>>>>> police
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> confuse a circuit board and some wires with something that can
>>>>>>>> explode. If
>>>>>>>> our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to be the
>>>>>>>> case,
>>>>>>>> here),
>>>>>>>> then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million dollar fine.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l