Purely out of curiosity...

Sat Dec 12 13:10:04 CST 2015

Or The Secret Disintegration!....TRP, stop out for a short story!

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> YES! The Clockwork Bomb.
>
> All kinds of resonances.
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 1:38 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> In fact, a good writer could spin this into a VERY good story.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems likely that the son played out a set up, a test, and the school
>>> and the cops failed the test.  No one thought it was a bomb. The boy said it
>>> was a clock. Yet the authorities tried their best to get a hoax bomb charge
>>> to stick. They failed the test. They lost this Sting, and I'm glad it played
>>> out as it did.
>>>
>>> David Morris
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I sincerely hope that you are not implying that I came to my conclusions
>>>> based on anything THOSE idiots wrote, or that my skepticism about the
>>>> oversimplified, wrongheaded narrative that much of the mainstream media has
>>>> chosen to run with in this case puts me on par with the brothers and ancient
>>>> alien true believers on this pathetically benighted website.
>>>>
>>>> J
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 12, 2015 8:19 AM, "Elisabeth Romberg" <eromberg at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Clock-boy was also the subject on FreemanTV with Jamie Hanshaw last
>>>>> Saturday.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://freemantv.com/muslim-attacks-believe-it-or-else-jamie-hanshaw/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 12. des. 2015 kl. 07.13 skrev Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is scary just in how much it reveals about how reactionary we've
>>>>> become.
>>>>>
>>>>> You know, in a really peaceable society, people remember that there's a
>>>>> difference between being arrested and undergoing something that requires
>>>>> damages--that's only supposed to happen once you get convicted. A person who
>>>>> committed no crime occasionally being brought in for questioning and then
>>>>> released is an unavoidable part of even the most utopian investigatory
>>>>> system (you might call it, ahem, an inherent vice).
>>>>>
>>>>> Was there any suggestion or indication that, aside from the arrest being
>>>>> wrongful in the first place, he was improperly handled/treated? There is
>>>>> this from the ArtVoice thing:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me, 'No,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and asking
>>>>>>
>>>>>> him questions," Mohamed said.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If that's true (there's no time frame given I don't think) is that
>>>>> outside normal/proper operating procedures?
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't know if it constitutes the 'torture' the dad is quoted as
>>>>> suggesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All your clarifications are noted, and important--I should've been
>>>>>> carefuller about them in the first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that's kind of my point. Me and you paying attention to this is
>>>>>>> meaningless. The MEDIA (95% of which is pushing a false narrative) are
>>>>>>> the ones who should never have run with this. If they hadn't, then we
>>>>>>> wouldn't be having to discuss it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And anyway, in the Big Picture, NOTHING really matters, does it? So
>>>>>>> why even bring it up in this particular context?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> J.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS - Further clarification... I never claimed that the Mohammed family
>>>>>>> planned any of this in advance, and I don't know anyone who does. The
>>>>>>> opportunity simply presented itself, and they ran with it. No need for
>>>>>>> any complicated conspiracy or plan. It's just that, as soon as the
>>>>>>> media jumped on Ahmed's alleged "mistreatment", THAT's when the
>>>>>>> conniving for money began. But that doesn't let Ahmed off the hook for
>>>>>>> his shitty behavior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:48 AM, Steven Koteff
>>>>>>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> > I guess I'm curious also why this particular case is so exigent, if
>>>>>>> > it is as
>>>>>>> > simple as the kid and his father are con artists, or malicious
>>>>>>> > provocateurs.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > If that's the case, then the wrongdoing is a relatively simple one,
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>> > committed on a relatively small scale (that is, by one or two
>>>>>>> > people, as
>>>>>>> > opposed to the broader/less addressable alternative that it's a
>>>>>>> > systemic
>>>>>>> > problem). People filing a ridiculous lawsuit--happens all the time.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > If that's the case, why does this particular one deserve more of my
>>>>>>> > attention (which I'm giving it) than, say, climate talks, what Trump
>>>>>>> > means
>>>>>>> > for America, this Shkreli asshole, etc., all of which seem to be of
>>>>>>> > more
>>>>>>> > pressing concern to the country than just a single father and son
>>>>>>> > acting
>>>>>>> > wrongly and in a way that did not really physically endanger anyone.
>>>>>>> > I mean
>>>>>>> > I guess the fact that the case is so zeitgeisty sort of gives it its
>>>>>>> > own
>>>>>>> > exigence, right or wrong, and of course we should always be on the
>>>>>>> > side of
>>>>>>> > truth prevailing, but...
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I dunno. I'm not saying it's wrong to have the stance that the
>>>>>>> > family should
>>>>>>> > get nothing and should maybe be punished in some way. I do not even
>>>>>>> > think
>>>>>>> > the ends-justify-the-means thing (meaning that maybe the attention
>>>>>>> > this gets
>>>>>>> > helps lead us in the direction of more tolerance, of more peace, of
>>>>>>> > less
>>>>>>> > systemic prejudice and injustice, etc...) is a good counterargument
>>>>>>> > if it
>>>>>>> > depends on us accepting or ignoring something untrue--I do think the
>>>>>>> > distinction should be made. But I guess I'm saying it feels like the
>>>>>>> > swing
>>>>>>> > in the other direction has been more than a return to rest or even
>>>>>>> > an equal
>>>>>>> > sort of pendulum-swing, but has been additional enmity and
>>>>>>> > attention, also
>>>>>>> > coming before all the facts are known, maybe.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Steven Koteff
>>>>>>> > <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Do you think there is room for both parties to have somehow acted
>>>>>>> >> wrongly?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I.e. Ahmed and his father were being deliberately provocative (to
>>>>>>> >> the end
>>>>>>> >> of money and attention or whatever else) in Ahmed's bringing the
>>>>>>> >> clock to
>>>>>>> >> school and repeatedly calling attention to it,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> but also that the teachers and/or police (who as should be noted
>>>>>>> >> knew
>>>>>>> >> Ahmed much better than we do) were, at some turn, possibly less
>>>>>>> >> generous
>>>>>>> >> than they could've been? Let's say Ahmed is routinely a pain in the
>>>>>>> >> ass and
>>>>>>> >> the source of small-scale mischief (that is, suspendable and
>>>>>>> >> outrageous
>>>>>>> >> offenses but something short of taking lives) and possibly a bad
>>>>>>> >> kid, like a
>>>>>>> >> true-blue asshole. This seems true if he is guilty of deliberately
>>>>>>> >> inciting
>>>>>>> >> panic or whatever. (And if we can use the egregiousness of the
>>>>>>> >> lawsuit to
>>>>>>> >> retroactively inform our judgment of his character at time of
>>>>>>> >> clock-display,
>>>>>>> >> then we can also use keep going, by a sort of syllogism, to
>>>>>>> >> retroactively
>>>>>>> >> use it to assume that maybe he was just an obvious asshole from the
>>>>>>> >> start.)
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> If that's all true, then the teachers are possibly collectively
>>>>>>> >> sick of
>>>>>>> >> his shit. Maybe one or several of them are having particularly
>>>>>>> >> rough days
>>>>>>> >> and so their patience is thin (this seems to be a fair possibility
>>>>>>> >> in the
>>>>>>> >> case of high school teachers who have to deal with dozens of
>>>>>>> >> students like
>>>>>>> >> Ahmed a day). And so maybe, despite having never actually thinking
>>>>>>> >> it is
>>>>>>> >> anything more dangerous than a clock that looks like an explosive
>>>>>>> >> device,
>>>>>>> >> they flex just a bit more bureaucratic muscle than they needed to.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> (We think that race/religion are the only things that can guide
>>>>>>> >> decisions
>>>>>>> >> like this, but in the case of a student and his school's faculty,
>>>>>>> >> likely
>>>>>>> >> their personal biases toward him are just as influential [though of
>>>>>>> >> course
>>>>>>> >> those are guided by any biases they might have toward his
>>>>>>> >> race/religion,
>>>>>>> >> etc.]).
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Maybe there are one or several points at which someone could've
>>>>>>> >> just said,
>>>>>>> >> "Ahmed, you're being an asshole, give me the clock, I'm putting it
>>>>>>> >> in my
>>>>>>> >> desk until the end of the day." But then, given the zero tolerance
>>>>>>> >> thing,
>>>>>>> >> there is a point at which this thing has too much momentum to just
>>>>>>> >> let go...
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I don't know. I mean that sincerely--I really don't. I think the
>>>>>>> >> account
>>>>>>> >> of things you posted indicates that Ahmed and his father acted
>>>>>>> >> wrongly. I
>>>>>>> >> also think there is room in there for the teachers and police not
>>>>>>> >> just to
>>>>>>> >> have been victims but to have been sort of...punitively
>>>>>>> >> trigger-happy. I say
>>>>>>> >> this as someone who also went to junior high, and to high school,
>>>>>>> >> in the
>>>>>>> >> 21st century, in a Union state, and who witnessed open enmity from
>>>>>>> >> teachers
>>>>>>> >> toward particular students for reasons like: A) the kid is black,
>>>>>>> >> B) the kid
>>>>>>> >> is not smart, C) the kid is hyperactive, D) the teacher seems to
>>>>>>> >> have an
>>>>>>> >> unhappy disposition as is, E)tc.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I think, as a society, we are not well equipped to deal with
>>>>>>> >> situations
>>>>>>> >> this nuanced--in which multiple parties might have acted wrongly.
>>>>>>> >> Of course
>>>>>>> >> many such situations are probably like this to an extent. There
>>>>>>> >> are, I'm
>>>>>>> >> guessing, several minorities who were acting like assholes,
>>>>>>> >> possibly very
>>>>>>> >> high, being violent and unpredictable, making threats, handling (if
>>>>>>> >> not
>>>>>>> >> using) weapons, who were killed by police officers, who might not
>>>>>>> >> have been
>>>>>>> >> killed had they been white.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> >You've emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.'
>>>>>>> >>> >Why is that? To indicate that it is an unbiased take (as opposed
>>>>>>> >>> >to a really political, say, blog) or to imply that it is more
>>>>>>> >>> >stringently fact checked or...
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> I mention it because, as someone who was "internet famous" between
>>>>>>> >>> 1999 and 2006 (peak years 2000-2003) as sole author and content
>>>>>>> >>> provider of a quite successful proto-blog email newsletter (The
>>>>>>> >>> Daily
>>>>>>> >>> Dirt), I am intimately aware of and particularly sensitive to the
>>>>>>> >>> (ahem) "liberties" taken by the reactionary right-wing side of the
>>>>>>> >>> blog-and-comment-o-sphere. I spent much of my seven years as Jerky
>>>>>>> >>> LeBoeuf (coinciding as they did with the Dubya preznitcy)
>>>>>>> >>> debunking
>>>>>>> >>> and fact-checking the likes of Drudge Report, Fox News, Rush
>>>>>>> >>> Limbaugh,
>>>>>>> >>> Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, and all the rest of the
>>>>>>> >>> then-nascent ultra-conservative first-gen blog-rolls. So I would
>>>>>>> >>> hate
>>>>>>> >>> to be mistaken as one of those. On the other hand, I am currently
>>>>>>> >>> on
>>>>>>> >>> the edge of despair due to so many of my former friends, readers
>>>>>>> >>> and
>>>>>>> >>> other allies behaving as left-leaning versions of the assholes I
>>>>>>> >>> mention above, ever ready to assume the worst of any institution
>>>>>>> >>> (or
>>>>>>> >>> cis-gendered white male), accept any and all claims to victimhood
>>>>>>> >>> as
>>>>>>> >>> valid, and basically display the same kind of ravening,
>>>>>>> >>> drool-flecked
>>>>>>> >>> howling, pack mentality, as if they've torn a page from the main
>>>>>>> >>> stylebook of the turn-of-the-millennium Conservative
>>>>>>> >>> Movementarians.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> >It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-
>>>>>>> >>> >(and third-, and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved
>>>>>>> >>> >has so much at stake now (even if the teachers acted 100%
>>>>>>> >>> >rightly, they're now in a situation where they are probably
>>>>>>> >>> >compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest, just for
>>>>>>> >>> > protection).
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Yes. And that's why I always try to reason these things out for
>>>>>>> >>> myself, with as cool a head as humanly possible. In this case, for
>>>>>>> >>> instance, I asked myself, would it be REASONABLE for a teacher to
>>>>>>> >>> believe that someone who brought such a thing into class was up to
>>>>>>> >>> some kind of mischief? As soon as I saw the "clock" in question...
>>>>>>> >>> it
>>>>>>> >>> was clear to me that, OF COURSE the teachers were right to be
>>>>>>> >>> suspicious. The thing could not possibly look less like a clock.
>>>>>>> >>> The
>>>>>>> >>> only way it could look more like a cliche'd action movie bomb was
>>>>>>> >>> if
>>>>>>> >>> it was a bowling ball with a firecracker sticking out of the top.
>>>>>>> >>> So,
>>>>>>> >>> next step for me, if the teachers were correct in SUSPECTING
>>>>>>> >>> POSSIBLE
>>>>>>> >>> BAD INTENT, then were they right to call in the police? It turns
>>>>>>> >>> out,
>>>>>>> >>> considering the school district's zero tolerance policy, they
>>>>>>> >>> probably
>>>>>>> >>> didn't even have a choice. Same as if they'd caught him with
>>>>>>> >>> booze, or
>>>>>>> >>> a joint, or if he'd pinched a female student's bottom and she'd
>>>>>>> >>> complained... the authorities HAD TO BE called in. And they were.
>>>>>>> >>> Now,
>>>>>>> >>> that leads us to the question of whether the authorities did
>>>>>>> >>> anything
>>>>>>> >>> wrong by taking Ahmed into custody, or putting him in handcuffs,
>>>>>>> >>> or
>>>>>>> >>> keeping him from his parents for an hour and a half. And you know
>>>>>>> >>> what? There is NO legislation that prevents police from detaining
>>>>>>> >>> or
>>>>>>> >>> handcuffing a 14 year old. This should be patently obvious to
>>>>>>> >>> anyone
>>>>>>> >>> who went through junior high school (as it was to me, as I myself
>>>>>>> >>> have
>>>>>>> >>> personally witnessed teacher and police behavior towards 13/14/15
>>>>>>> >>> year
>>>>>>> >>> olds that was FAR more egregious and unjust than what poor Ahmed
>>>>>>> >>> went
>>>>>>> >>> through). But apparently most of the members of the media who have
>>>>>>> >>> been reporting on this story were hot-house flowers who grew up in
>>>>>>> >>> social justice enclaves where they were taught (hahaha) that life
>>>>>>> >>> should be "fair" or something, or that if you have a problem with
>>>>>>> >>> authority, you can always sue the bastards. Well, maybe that's
>>>>>>> >>> true. I
>>>>>>> >>> certainly hope it isn't, because for the Muhammed family to get
>>>>>>> >>> one
>>>>>>> >>> thin dime out of this would be a travesty of justice and a blow
>>>>>>> >>> against common sense, in my opinion as an anti-racist,
>>>>>>> >>> anti-fascist,
>>>>>>> >>> authority-skeptic liberal of long standing.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Sincerely;
>>>>>>> >>> J
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Steven Koteff
>>>>>>> >>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> > I don't mean to imply anything. Just thanking you for doing the
>>>>>>> >>> > research--I
>>>>>>> >>> > am in that gray area of being curious enough to want to know the
>>>>>>> >>> > timeline
>>>>>>> >>> > without being curious enough (or having enough time) to do much
>>>>>>> >>> > digging
>>>>>>> >>> > myself.
>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> > And also, because you seem much more up on this than I am, I am
>>>>>>> >>> > curious
>>>>>>> >>> > to
>>>>>>> >>> > hear your takeaway.
>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> > I think if everything in that article is right then it kind of
>>>>>>> >>> > seems
>>>>>>> >>> > like it
>>>>>>> >>> > was at best incredibly ignorant and irresponsible on the part of
>>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>>>> >>> > dad and
>>>>>>> >>> > the son. At worst (and the direction it seems to lean, if the
>>>>>>> >>> > article
>>>>>>> >>> > is
>>>>>>> >>> > right) possibly a deliberately provocative act on the part of
>>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>>>> >>> > father. To
>>>>>>> >>> > what end? Is it just about money and attention? I actually
>>>>>>> >>> > think, if
>>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>>>> >>> > provocation is deliberate, it betrays not just run-of-the-mill
>>>>>>> >>> > selfish
>>>>>>> >>> > motives but also personal disturbance on the part of the father,
>>>>>>> >>> > and
>>>>>>> >>> > the kid
>>>>>>> >>> > too.
>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> > But all that comes with the caveat that the account is true.
>>>>>>> >>> > You've
>>>>>>> >>> > emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.' Why is that?
>>>>>>> >>> > To
>>>>>>> >>> > indicate
>>>>>>> >>> > that it is an unbiased take (as opposed to a really political,
>>>>>>> >>> > say,
>>>>>>> >>> > blog) or
>>>>>>> >>> > to imply that it is more stringently fact checked or...
>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> > It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-(and
>>>>>>> >>> > third-,
>>>>>>> >>> > and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved has so much at
>>>>>>> >>> > stake now
>>>>>>> >>> > (even
>>>>>>> >>> > if the teachers acted 100% rightly, they're now in a situation
>>>>>>> >>> > where
>>>>>>> >>> > they
>>>>>>> >>> > are probably compelled to act and testify in their own
>>>>>>> >>> > self-interest,
>>>>>>> >>> > just
>>>>>>> >>> > for protection).
>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> > I read that article saying that the police said something, but
>>>>>>> >>> > at least
>>>>>>> >>> > half
>>>>>>> >>> > of me is thinking I should be asking, "But who says the police
>>>>>>> >>> > said
>>>>>>> >>> > that?"
>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>>> >>> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> Here's a handy timeline from the ArtVoice blog. The facts all
>>>>>>> >>> >> check
>>>>>>> >>> >> out (meaning the author hasn't misrepresented the mostly
>>>>>>> >>> >> mainstream
>>>>>>> >>> >> articles to which he refers):
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> On the morning of Sept 14, Mohamed El Hassan Mohamed drove his
>>>>>>> >>> >> son
>>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed to school and at that time, according to NBC
>>>>>>> >>> >> Dallas/Ft.Worth,
>>>>>>> >>> >> Mohamed "encouraged him to demonstrate his gift of technology"
>>>>>>> >>> >> at the
>>>>>>> >>> >> school. He was referring to a small plain metal case, inside of
>>>>>>> >>> >> which
>>>>>>> >>> >> contained the hastily arranged and unshielded electronic
>>>>>>> >>> >> components of
>>>>>>> >>> >> a 1980's Micronta digital alarm clock. A device Ahmed would
>>>>>>> >>> >> repeatedly
>>>>>>> >>> >> insist he threw together the night before in just 15 minutes
>>>>>>> >>> >> from of
>>>>>>> >>> >> "scraps" laying around his house, a device that he himself
>>>>>>> >>> >> considered
>>>>>>> >>> >> to appear suspicious and threatening.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> Defying common sense, it appears that Mohamed, the man who runs
>>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>>> >>> >> National Reform Party of Sudan, who is considered an
>>>>>>> >>> >> enlightened
>>>>>>> >>> >> scholar in Sudan, who ran for its presidency twice in the last
>>>>>>> >>> >> 5
>>>>>>> >>> >> years, whose daughter was suspended from school for a bomb
>>>>>>> >>> >> threat,
>>>>>>> >>> >> whose son was detained and suspended for multiple disciplinary
>>>>>>> >>> >> problems and electronic pranks, in a town recently rocked by a
>>>>>>> >>> >> double
>>>>>>> >>> >> murder honor killing and lies 25 minutes from the Garland TX
>>>>>>> >>> >> Jihadi
>>>>>>> >>> >> attack, on the first day back to school after the anniversary
>>>>>>> >>> >> of 9-11,
>>>>>>> >>> >> encourages his son to bring in a nondescript metal case with a
>>>>>>> >>> >> timer
>>>>>>> >>> >> and loose wiring inside without being asked to by any teacher,
>>>>>>> >>> >> a
>>>>>>> >>> >> device even his son admits looked threatening and suspicious.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> Next we are told by Ahmed that he shows the device to his 1st
>>>>>>> >>> >> period
>>>>>>> >>> >> Science teacher who sensitively and politely tells him the
>>>>>>> >>> >> device is
>>>>>>> >>> >> "nice" but it looks like a bomb and so he should put it away
>>>>>>> >>> >> and not
>>>>>>> >>> >> take it out and show it to anyone else at school.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> According to Mark Cuban who spoke with an Irving resident who's
>>>>>>> >>> >> friend
>>>>>>> >>> >> is a teacher in Mac Arthur H.S., Ahmed proceeded to show off
>>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>>> >>> >> device to each teacher all the way to 6th period where in
>>>>>>> >>> >> English
>>>>>>> >>> >> class, Ahmed claims to have plugged the device into the wall
>>>>>>> >>> >> outlet
>>>>>>> >>> >> and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class "to show a
>>>>>>> >>> >> friend".
>>>>>>> >>> >> When the teacher reacted to the disruption he "unplugged it
>>>>>>> >>> >> right
>>>>>>> >>> >> away". After showing the English teacher what caused the
>>>>>>> >>> >> disruption,
>>>>>>> >>> >> the teacher told him it looks like a bomb, that it is making
>>>>>>> >>> >> her
>>>>>>> >>> >> nervous and would make others nervous, and to put it away in
>>>>>>> >>> >> his
>>>>>>> >>> >> backpack, to which Ahmed said "I don't think it looks like a
>>>>>>> >>> >> bomb". At
>>>>>>> >>> >> the end of class the device was confiscated and the Principal
>>>>>>> >>> >> alerted.
>>>>>>> >>> >> The Irving school system adheres to a zero tolerance policy
>>>>>>> >>> >> regarding
>>>>>>> >>> >> threatening devices, and being that the possession of such a
>>>>>>> >>> >> device
>>>>>>> >>> >> with intent to alarm others is a criminal offense in Texas, the
>>>>>>> >>> >> police
>>>>>>> >>> >> were called to question Ahmed and determine what his intentions
>>>>>>> >>> >> were.
>>>>>>> >>> >> Later 3 teachers would sign a complaint to the police about a
>>>>>>> >>> >> hoax
>>>>>>> >>> >> bomb, as the Principal decided to contact the police on the
>>>>>>> >>> >> issue.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> The police arrived at school and entered the conference room
>>>>>>> >>> >> where
>>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed was detained and one officer claimed "that is who I
>>>>>>> >>> >> thought it
>>>>>>> >>> >> was". Likely referring to Ahmed's past troubles and his
>>>>>>> >>> >> family's
>>>>>>> >>> >> notoriety. The police questioned Ahmed, and claimed he was not
>>>>>>> >>> >> forthcoming, passive aggressive, and would not directly answer
>>>>>>> >>> >> their
>>>>>>> >>> >> questions. They decided to arrest him for possession of a hoax
>>>>>>> >>> >> bomb
>>>>>>> >>> >> and bring him to the police station where they would continue
>>>>>>> >>> >> their
>>>>>>> >>> >> investigation to determine whether he intended to raise alarm
>>>>>>> >>> >> with his
>>>>>>> >>> >> device, a Class A misdemeanor.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> Somehow or other it appears Ahmed's 18 year old sister Eyman
>>>>>>> >>> >> found out
>>>>>>> >>> >> that Ahmed was being taken to the police station. There is an
>>>>>>> >>> >> iconic
>>>>>>> >>> >> photo of Ahmed in handcuffs taken by Eyman, and some captions
>>>>>>> >>> >> under
>>>>>>> >>> >> that photo indicate it was taken at the police station. This
>>>>>>> >>> >> implies
>>>>>>> >>> >> his sister arrived shortly after Ahmed arrived, because he
>>>>>>> >>> >> would not
>>>>>>> >>> >> have been in handcuffs after he was released without charge an
>>>>>>> >>> >> hour
>>>>>>> >>> >> later. There is also speculation Eyman took the photo as Ahmed
>>>>>>> >>> >> was
>>>>>>> >>> >> leaving the school in handcuffs.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed's father claims the first he heard of his son's problem
>>>>>>> >>> >> was from
>>>>>>> >>> >> a phone call from the police. We do not know if he arrived with
>>>>>>> >>> >> or
>>>>>>> >>> >> separate from Eyman. It is hard to believe Eyman heard about
>>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>>> >>> >> incident and arrived at the police station to take that photo
>>>>>>> >>> >> and
>>>>>>> >>> >> never alerted her father. If Eyman only knew through her
>>>>>>> >>> >> father, this
>>>>>>> >>> >> would mean they both arrived at the station in time to see
>>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed
>>>>>>> >>> >> before he went in a private room for questioning. Improbable
>>>>>>> >>> >> but
>>>>>>> >>> >> possible. The father's account follows.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> **The first he heard of it was when he received a call from
>>>>>>> >>> >> police,
>>>>>>> >>> >> who said his son was being charged with having a hoax bomb,
>>>>>>> >>> >> Mohamed
>>>>>>> >>> >> said.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> He rushed to the police station, where he saw his son
>>>>>>> >>> >> "surrounded by
>>>>>>> >>> >> five police and he was handcuffed," the father said. Ahmed told
>>>>>>> >>> >> his
>>>>>>> >>> >> father he'd asked to phone him but the police told him he could
>>>>>>> >>> >> not
>>>>>>> >>> >> because he was under arrest, Mohamed said.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told
>>>>>>> >>> >> me, 'No,
>>>>>>> >>> >> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and
>>>>>>> >>> >> asking
>>>>>>> >>> >> him questions," Mohamed said. "I asked if I could see the thing
>>>>>>> >>> >> they
>>>>>>> >>> >> were calling a bomb. The police never let me even see it but I
>>>>>>> >>> >> knew
>>>>>>> >>> >> what my son brought to school. It was an alarm clock that he
>>>>>>> >>> >> made. He
>>>>>>> >>> >> wakes up with it most mornings. **
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> Here we have Mohamed contradicting his son's claim the device
>>>>>>> >>> >> was
>>>>>>> >>> >> hastily thrown together the night before. His credibility as a
>>>>>>> >>> >> responsible parent and supervisor of his child already strained
>>>>>>> >>> >> to the
>>>>>>> >>> >> limit, he goes on to claim, "my son was hurt and tortured and
>>>>>>> >>> >> arrested
>>>>>>> >>> >> and mistreated in front of his friends at school".
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> After further questioning, the police could not find anything
>>>>>>> >>> >> in
>>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed's statements to indicate he intended to cause alarm, and
>>>>>>> >>> >> released him without charge.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> The family went on to set off a social media firestorm
>>>>>>> >>> >> portraying
>>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed as persecuted and harassed, "hurt and tortured" by
>>>>>>> >>> >> Islamophobic
>>>>>>> >>> >> xenophobic, vindictive officials from the school and police
>>>>>>> >>> >> station,
>>>>>>> >>> >> holding press conferences where suddenly their son was able to
>>>>>>> >>> >> speak
>>>>>>> >>> >> in great detail about the incident, as opposed to the "name
>>>>>>> >>> >> rank and
>>>>>>> >>> >> serial number" routine he gave the police.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> There was never a moment where Mohamed El Hassan expressed even
>>>>>>> >>> >> a
>>>>>>> >>> >> small fraction of responsibility as the parent the person at
>>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>>> >>> >> center of this incident. No apology or humility, only strident
>>>>>>> >>> >> arrogant and slanderous accusations issued from him. Even today
>>>>>>> >>> >> as
>>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed has been seen laughing, joking, and smiling all across
>>>>>>> >>> >> the USA
>>>>>>> >>> >> as he visits dozens of august institutions and famous talk
>>>>>>> >>> >> shows that
>>>>>>> >>> >> roll out the red carpet for the self proclaimed "inventor of a
>>>>>>> >>> >> clock",
>>>>>>> >>> >> his family insists Ahmed is "severely traumatized" and "lacking
>>>>>>> >>> >> appetite and ability to sleep". Furthermore Mohamed refused to
>>>>>>> >>> >> accept
>>>>>>> >>> >> the police repeated offer to come pick up the device, while
>>>>>>> >>> >> hiring
>>>>>>> >>> >> lawyers to sue the police, in part, for refusing to release the
>>>>>>> >>> >> device
>>>>>>> >>> >> to the family. The family has refused to sign a waiver allowing
>>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>>> >>> >> school and police from telling their side of the story to the
>>>>>>> >>> >> media,
>>>>>>> >>> >> while they continue to offer a contradictory version that
>>>>>>> >>> >> evolves
>>>>>>> >>> >> daily, along side baseless and slanderous accusations against
>>>>>>> >>> >> officials.
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> According to Ahmed's own words, his authority figure (Science
>>>>>>> >>> >> teacher)
>>>>>>> >>> >> confirmed Ahmed's own perception and told him his device looked
>>>>>>> >>> >> like a
>>>>>>> >>> >> bomb and not to show it to anyone. Ahmed then set the alarm on
>>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>>> >>> >> device in the middle of class. He appears to have had the
>>>>>>> >>> >> intent to
>>>>>>> >>> >> evoke some reaction. His actions were reckless, and arguably
>>>>>>> >>> >> criminal.
>>>>>>> >>> >> Yet the media continues to portray him as a persecuted victim,
>>>>>>> >>> >> even as
>>>>>>> >>> >> he and his family stood in NYC with the Mayor who proclaimed
>>>>>>> >>> >> 9/29/2015
>>>>>>> >>> >> as "Ahmed day", before flying to the Middle East where they met
>>>>>>> >>> >> with
>>>>>>> >>> >> various community and political leaders (including more than
>>>>>>> >>> >> one with
>>>>>>> >>> >> a history of conducting large-scale massacres of
>>>>>>> >>> >> non-combatants).
>>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>>> >>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> >> > And for those of you who are wondering "Where on Earth did he
>>>>>>> >>> >> > ever
>>>>>>> >>> >> > ADMIT
>>>>>>> >>> >> > that his creation might look SUSPICIOUS or LIKE A THREAT,
>>>>>>> >>> >> > Mister
>>>>>>> >>> >> > Smarty
>>>>>>> >>> >> > Pants?!", kindly jump to the 1 minute, 30 second point on
>>>>>>> >>> >> > this video
>>>>>>> >>> >> > to
>>>>>>> >>> >> > see
>>>>>>> >>> >> > where he basically admits that he knew the thing would
>>>>>>> >>> >> > probably
>>>>>>> >>> >> > freak
>>>>>>> >>> >> > people
>>>>>>> >>> >> > out.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bGeBk8Fus0
>>>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>>> >>> >> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> I think a more pertinent question might be, please cite
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> where it's
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> illegal
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> for police to detain and question 14 year olds.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> The teachers followed the rules, and the people who best
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> know this
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> kid
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> --
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> the teachers who work with him on a daily basis (you know...
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> teachers?
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> those
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> underpaid heroes we love so much? the same people some of
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> you are
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> now
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> willing to throw under the bus because it suits your
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> OMGRACISM
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> worldview?)
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> thought his behavior merited action.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> Before I bring you guys the most complete narrative I can
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> put
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> together
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> of
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> what happened (based on mainstream news sources), HERE is a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> video
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> showing
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> what it took to "invent" the clock that he "invented"
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzQjS6tn4w
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:45 PM, <rbollinger at austin.rr.com>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> Please cite your statute governing reassembled clock
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> parts...
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> Rob Bollinger
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> Austin TX
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> ---- ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > teacher, a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > club
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > did the
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > clock
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > fit
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > bring it
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > to
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school?
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > or make
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > project,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > or in any way bring something to school that was part of
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > an
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > assignment
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > from
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > not show
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > tell.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and put
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > box and brought it to school.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in a box
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > took
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > sometimes
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > 14
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > box, a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > plastic
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc...,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > even on
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Halloween
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is dangerous and against the law, young people do make
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > these
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > kinds
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > of
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school as
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the safest place in the world for students. Obviously,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > doing so
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > street may get one killed by a police officer or even a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > gun
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > toting
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > citizen.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > handcuffed,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > probably,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and asked to write a statement explaining his or her
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > intentions
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is the
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > law.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > It
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > matters not the race or religion of the child.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > experienced
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > but the
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > current
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > act
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > of....welll
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > not courage, but decency.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Experience <
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > store
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > bought
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > clock
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > and put it back together, beyond people online pointing
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > out
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > that
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > doing so
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > child acted
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > as
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > believe,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > this
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > means
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > teachers and
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > police
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > would
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > confuse a circuit board and some wires with something
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > that can
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > explode. If
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > be the
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > case,
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > here),
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > dollar
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > fine.
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> -
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>>>> >>> >> -
>>>>>>> >>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Elisabeth Romberg
>>>>> eromberg at mac.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l