Purely out of curiosity...

[Mark Thibodeau]

clap clap clap clap

On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 8:11 AM, kelber at mindspring.com
<kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> This is a statistically insignificant incident. The vast majority of people
> who are treated unfairly by the police (whether they bear any culpability or
> not) never go to court, and the small number that do rarely find justice.
> Relegate this oddball story to Ripley's, and move on.
>
> Laura
>
>
> Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The kid was detained for less than 2 hours. How is that doing their
> best to get a hoax bomb charge to stick? And saying it was a clock
> doesn't make what he did acceptable. Did you even read any of the
> timelines and commentary I posted? How can you possibly be GLAD it
> played out as it did? You ENJOY being lied to by the media? You're
> that comfortable in your ideological hug-box?
>
> J
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 1:35 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It seems likely that the son played out a set up, a test, and the school
>> and
>> the cops failed the test.  No one thought it was a bomb. The boy said it
>> was
>> a clock. Yet the authorities tried their best to get a hoax bomb charge to
>> stick. They failed the test. They lost this Sting, and I'm glad it played
>> out as it did.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I sincerely hope that you are not implying that I came to my conclusions
>>> based on anything THOSE idiots wrote, or that my skepticism about the
>>> oversimplified, wrongheaded narrative that much of the mainstream media
>>> has
>>> chosen to run with in this case puts me on par with the brothers and
>>> ancient
>>> alien true believers on this pathetically benighted website.
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>> On Dec 12, 2015 8:19 AM, "Elisabeth Romberg" <eromberg at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Clock-boy was also the subject on FreemanTV with Jamie Hanshaw last
>>>> Saturday.
>>>>
>>>> http://freemantv.com/muslim-attacks-believe-it-or-else-jamie-hanshaw/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 12. des. 2015 kl. 07.13 skrev Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> It is scary just in how much it reveals about how reactionary we've
>>>> become.
>>>>
>>>> You know, in a really peaceable society, people remember that there's a
>>>> difference between being arrested and undergoing something that requires
>>>> damages--that's only supposed to happen once you get convicted. A person
>>>> who
>>>> committed no crime occasionally being brought in for questioning and
>>>> then
>>>> released is an unavoidable part of even the most utopian investigatory
>>>> system (you might call it, ahem, an inherent vice).
>>>>
>>>> Was there any suggestion or indication that, aside from the arrest being
>>>> wrongful in the first place, he was improperly handled/treated? There is
>>>> this from the ArtVoice thing:
>>>>
>>>>> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me, 'No,
>>>>>
>>>>> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and asking
>>>>>
>>>>> him questions," Mohamed said.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If that's true (there's no time frame given I don't think) is that
>>>> outside normal/proper operating procedures?
>>>>
>>>> Don't know if it constitutes the 'torture' the dad is quoted as
>>>> suggesting.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> All your clarifications are noted, and important--I should've been
>>>>> carefuller about them in the first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that's kind of my point. Me and you paying attention to this is
>>>>>> meaningless. The MEDIA (95% of which is pushing a false narrative) are
>>>>>> the ones who should never have run with this. If they hadn't, then we
>>>>>> wouldn't be having to discuss it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And anyway, in the Big Picture, NOTHING really matters, does it? So
>>>>>> why even bring it up in this particular context?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS - Further clarification... I never claimed that the Mohammed family
>>>>>> planned any of this in advance, and I don't know anyone who does. The
>>>>>> opportunity simply presented itself, and they ran with it. No need for
>>>>>> any complicated conspiracy or plan. It's just that, as soon as the
>>>>>> media jumped on Ahmed's alleged "mistreatment", THAT's when the
>>>>>> conniving for money began. But that doesn't let Ahmed off the hook for
>>>>>> his shitty behavior.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:48 AM, Steven Koteff
>>>>>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > I guess I'm curious also why this particular case is so exigent, if
>>>>>> > it is as
>>>>>> > simple as the kid and his father are con artists, or malicious
>>>>>> > provocateurs.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > If that's the case, then the wrongdoing is a relatively simple one,
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>> > committed on a relatively small scale (that is, by one or two
>>>>>> > people,
>>>>>> > as
>>>>>> > opposed to the broader/less addressable alternative that it's a
>>>>>> > systemic
>>>>>> > problem). People filing a ridiculous lawsuit--happens all the time.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > If that's the case, why does this particular one deserve more of my
>>>>>> > attention (which I'm giving it) than, say, climate talks, what Trump
>>>>>> > means
>>>>>> > for America, this Shkreli asshole, etc., all of which seem to be of
>>>>>> > more
>>>>>> > pressing concern to the country than just a single father and son
>>>>>> > acting
>>>>>> > wrongly and in a way that did not really physically endanger anyone.
>>>>>> > I mean
>>>>>> > I guess the fact that the case is so zeitgeisty sort of gives it its
>>>>>> > own
>>>>>> > exigence, right or wrong, and of course we should always be on the
>>>>>> > side of
>>>>>> > truth prevailing, but...
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I dunno. I'm not saying it's wrong to have the stance that the
>>>>>> > family
>>>>>> > should
>>>>>> > get nothing and should maybe be punished in some way. I do not even
>>>>>> > think
>>>>>> > the ends-justify-the-means thing (meaning that maybe the attention
>>>>>> > this gets
>>>>>> > helps lead us in the direction of more tolerance, of more peace, of
>>>>>> > less
>>>>>> > systemic prejudice and injustice, etc...) is a good counterargument
>>>>>> > if it
>>>>>> > depends on us accepting or ignoring something untrue--I do think the
>>>>>> > distinction should be made. But I guess I'm saying it feels like the
>>>>>> > swing
>>>>>> > in the other direction has been more than a return to rest or even
>>>>>> > an
>>>>>> > equal
>>>>>> > sort of pendulum-swing, but has been additional enmity and
>>>>>> > attention,
>>>>>> > also
>>>>>> > coming before all the facts are known, maybe.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Steven Koteff
>>>>>> > <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Do you think there is room for both parties to have somehow acted
>>>>>> >> wrongly?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I.e. Ahmed and his father were being deliberately provocative (to
>>>>>> >> the end
>>>>>> >> of money and attention or whatever else) in Ahmed's bringing the
>>>>>> >> clock to
>>>>>> >> school and repeatedly calling attention to it,
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> but also that the teachers and/or police (who as should be noted
>>>>>> >> knew
>>>>>> >> Ahmed much better than we do) were, at some turn, possibly less
>>>>>> >> generous
>>>>>> >> than they could've been? Let's say Ahmed is routinely a pain in the
>>>>>> >> ass and
>>>>>> >> the source of small-scale mischief (that is, suspendable and
>>>>>> >> outrageous
>>>>>> >> offenses but something short of taking lives) and possibly a bad
>>>>>> >> kid, like a
>>>>>> >> true-blue asshole. This seems true if he is guilty of deliberately
>>>>>> >> inciting
>>>>>> >> panic or whatever. (And if we can use the egregiousness of the
>>>>>> >> lawsuit to
>>>>>> >> retroactively inform our judgment of his character at time of
>>>>>> >> clock-display,
>>>>>> >> then we can also use keep going, by a sort of syllogism, to
>>>>>> >> retroactively
>>>>>> >> use it to assume that maybe he was just an obvious asshole from the
>>>>>> >> start.)
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> If that's all true, then the teachers are possibly collectively
>>>>>> >> sick
>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>> >> his shit. Maybe one or several of them are having particularly
>>>>>> >> rough
>>>>>> >> days
>>>>>> >> and so their patience is thin (this seems to be a fair possibility
>>>>>> >> in the
>>>>>> >> case of high school teachers who have to deal with dozens of
>>>>>> >> students like
>>>>>> >> Ahmed a day). And so maybe, despite having never actually thinking
>>>>>> >> it is
>>>>>> >> anything more dangerous than a clock that looks like an explosive
>>>>>> >> device,
>>>>>> >> they flex just a bit more bureaucratic muscle than they needed to.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> (We think that race/religion are the only things that can guide
>>>>>> >> decisions
>>>>>> >> like this, but in the case of a student and his school's faculty,
>>>>>> >> likely
>>>>>> >> their personal biases toward him are just as influential [though of
>>>>>> >> course
>>>>>> >> those are guided by any biases they might have toward his
>>>>>> >> race/religion,
>>>>>> >> etc.]).
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Maybe there are one or several points at which someone could've
>>>>>> >> just
>>>>>> >> said,
>>>>>> >> "Ahmed, you're being an asshole, give me the clock, I'm putting it
>>>>>> >> in my
>>>>>> >> desk until the end of the day." But then, given the zero tolerance
>>>>>> >> thing,
>>>>>> >> there is a point at which this thing has too much momentum to just
>>>>>> >> let go...
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I don't know. I mean that sincerely--I really don't. I think the
>>>>>> >> account
>>>>>> >> of things you posted indicates that Ahmed and his father acted
>>>>>> >> wrongly. I
>>>>>> >> also think there is room in there for the teachers and police not
>>>>>> >> just to
>>>>>> >> have been victims but to have been sort of...punitively
>>>>>> >> trigger-happy. I say
>>>>>> >> this as someone who also went to junior high, and to high school,
>>>>>> >> in
>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>> >> 21st century, in a Union state, and who witnessed open enmity from
>>>>>> >> teachers
>>>>>> >> toward particular students for reasons like: A) the kid is black,
>>>>>> >> B)
>>>>>> >> the kid
>>>>>> >> is not smart, C) the kid is hyperactive, D) the teacher seems to
>>>>>> >> have an
>>>>>> >> unhappy disposition as is, E)tc.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I think, as a society, we are not well equipped to deal with
>>>>>> >> situations
>>>>>> >> this nuanced--in which multiple parties might have acted wrongly.
>>>>>> >> Of
>>>>>> >> course
>>>>>> >> many such situations are probably like this to an extent. There
>>>>>> >> are,
>>>>>> >> I'm
>>>>>> >> guessing, several minorities who were acting like assholes,
>>>>>> >> possibly
>>>>>> >> very
>>>>>> >> high, being violent and unpredictable, making threats, handling (if
>>>>>> >> not
>>>>>> >> using) weapons, who were killed by police officers, who might not
>>>>>> >> have been
>>>>>> >> killed had they been white.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >You've emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.'
>>>>>> >>> >Why is that? To indicate that it is an unbiased take (as opposed
>>>>>> >>> >to a really political, say, blog) or to imply that it is more
>>>>>> >>> >stringently fact checked or...
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> I mention it because, as someone who was "internet famous" between
>>>>>> >>> 1999 and 2006 (peak years 2000-2003) as sole author and content
>>>>>> >>> provider of a quite successful proto-blog email newsletter (The
>>>>>> >>> Daily
>>>>>> >>> Dirt), I am intimately aware of and particularly sensitive to the
>>>>>> >>> (ahem) "liberties" taken by the reactionary right-wing side of the
>>>>>> >>> blog-and-comment-o-sphere. I spent much of my seven years as Jerky
>>>>>> >>> LeBoeuf (coinciding as they did with the Dubya preznitcy)
>>>>>> >>> debunking
>>>>>> >>> and fact-checking the likes of Drudge Report, Fox News, Rush
>>>>>> >>> Limbaugh,
>>>>>> >>> Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, and all the rest of the
>>>>>> >>> then-nascent ultra-conservative first-gen blog-rolls. So I would
>>>>>> >>> hate
>>>>>> >>> to be mistaken as one of those. On the other hand, I am currently
>>>>>> >>> on
>>>>>> >>> the edge of despair due to so many of my former friends, readers
>>>>>> >>> and
>>>>>> >>> other allies behaving as left-leaning versions of the assholes I
>>>>>> >>> mention above, ever ready to assume the worst of any institution
>>>>>> >>> (or
>>>>>> >>> cis-gendered white male), accept any and all claims to victimhood
>>>>>> >>> as
>>>>>> >>> valid, and basically display the same kind of ravening,
>>>>>> >>> drool-flecked
>>>>>> >>> howling, pack mentality, as if they've torn a page from the main
>>>>>> >>> stylebook of the turn-of-the-millennium Conservative
>>>>>> >>> Movementarians.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-
>>>>>> >>> >(and third-, and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved
>>>>>> >>> >has so much at stake now (even if the teachers acted 100%
>>>>>> >>> >rightly, they're now in a situation where they are probably
>>>>>> >>> >compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest, just for
>>>>>> >>> > protection).
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Yes. And that's why I always try to reason these things out for
>>>>>> >>> myself, with as cool a head as humanly possible. In this case, for
>>>>>> >>> instance, I asked myself, would it be REASONABLE for a teacher to
>>>>>> >>> believe that someone who brought such a thing into class was up to
>>>>>> >>> some kind of mischief? As soon as I saw the "clock" in question...
>>>>>> >>> it
>>>>>> >>> was clear to me that, OF COURSE the teachers were right to be
>>>>>> >>> suspicious. The thing could not possibly look less like a clock.
>>>>>> >>> The
>>>>>> >>> only way it could look more like a cliche'd action movie bomb was
>>>>>> >>> if
>>>>>> >>> it was a bowling ball with a firecracker sticking out of the top.
>>>>>> >>> So,
>>>>>> >>> next step for me, if the teachers were correct in SUSPECTING
>>>>>> >>> POSSIBLE
>>>>>> >>> BAD INTENT, then were they right to call in the police? It turns
>>>>>> >>> out,
>>>>>> >>> considering the school district's zero tolerance policy, they
>>>>>> >>> probably
>>>>>> >>> didn't even have a choice. Same as if they'd caught him with
>>>>>> >>> booze,
>>>>>> >>> or
>>>>>> >>> a joint, or if he'd pinched a female student's bottom and she'd
>>>>>> >>> complained... the authorities HAD TO BE called in. And they were.
>>>>>> >>> Now,
>>>>>> >>> that leads us to the question of whether the authorities did
>>>>>> >>> anything
>>>>>> >>> wrong by taking Ahmed into custody, or putting him in handcuffs,
>>>>>> >>> or
>>>>>> >>> keeping him from his parents for an hour and a half. And you know
>>>>>> >>> what? There is NO legislation that prevents police from detaining
>>>>>> >>> or
>>>>>> >>> handcuffing a 14 year old. This should be patently obvious to
>>>>>> >>> anyone
>>>>>> >>> who went through junior high school (as it was to me, as I myself
>>>>>> >>> have
>>>>>> >>> personally witnessed teacher and police behavior towards 13/14/15
>>>>>> >>> year
>>>>>> >>> olds that was FAR more egregious and unjust than what poor Ahmed
>>>>>> >>> went
>>>>>> >>> through). But apparently most of the members of the media who have
>>>>>> >>> been reporting on this story were hot-house flowers who grew up in
>>>>>> >>> social justice enclaves where they were taught (hahaha) that life
>>>>>> >>> should be "fair" or something, or that if you have a problem with
>>>>>> >>> authority, you can always sue the bastards. Well, maybe that's
>>>>>> >>> true. I
>>>>>> >>> certainly hope it isn't, because for the Muhammed family to get
>>>>>> >>> one
>>>>>> >>> thin dime out of this would be a travesty of justice and a blow
>>>>>> >>> against common sense, in my opinion as an anti-racist,
>>>>>> >>> anti-fascist,
>>>>>> >>> authority-skeptic liberal of long standing.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Sincerely;
>>>>>> >>> J
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Steven Koteff
>>>>>> >>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>> > I don't mean to imply anything. Just thanking you for doing the
>>>>>> >>> > research--I
>>>>>> >>> > am in that gray area of being curious enough to want to know the
>>>>>> >>> > timeline
>>>>>> >>> > without being curious enough (or having enough time) to do much
>>>>>> >>> > digging
>>>>>> >>> > myself.
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > And also, because you seem much more up on this than I am, I am
>>>>>> >>> > curious
>>>>>> >>> > to
>>>>>> >>> > hear your takeaway.
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > I think if everything in that article is right then it kind of
>>>>>> >>> > seems
>>>>>> >>> > like it
>>>>>> >>> > was at best incredibly ignorant and irresponsible on the part of
>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>>> >>> > dad and
>>>>>> >>> > the son. At worst (and the direction it seems to lean, if the
>>>>>> >>> > article
>>>>>> >>> > is
>>>>>> >>> > right) possibly a deliberately provocative act on the part of
>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>>> >>> > father. To
>>>>>> >>> > what end? Is it just about money and attention? I actually
>>>>>> >>> > think,
>>>>>> >>> > if
>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>>> >>> > provocation is deliberate, it betrays not just run-of-the-mill
>>>>>> >>> > selfish
>>>>>> >>> > motives but also personal disturbance on the part of the father,
>>>>>> >>> > and
>>>>>> >>> > the kid
>>>>>> >>> > too.
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > But all that comes with the caveat that the account is true.
>>>>>> >>> > You've
>>>>>> >>> > emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.' Why is that?
>>>>>> >>> > To
>>>>>> >>> > indicate
>>>>>> >>> > that it is an unbiased take (as opposed to a really political,
>>>>>> >>> > say,
>>>>>> >>> > blog) or
>>>>>> >>> > to imply that it is more stringently fact checked or...
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-(and
>>>>>> >>> > third-,
>>>>>> >>> > and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved has so much at
>>>>>> >>> > stake now
>>>>>> >>> > (even
>>>>>> >>> > if the teachers acted 100% rightly, they're now in a situation
>>>>>> >>> > where
>>>>>> >>> > they
>>>>>> >>> > are probably compelled to act and testify in their own
>>>>>> >>> > self-interest,
>>>>>> >>> > just
>>>>>> >>> > for protection).
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > I read that article saying that the police said something, but
>>>>>> >>> > at
>>>>>> >>> > least
>>>>>> >>> > half
>>>>>> >>> > of me is thinking I should be asking, "But who says the police
>>>>>> >>> > said
>>>>>> >>> > that?"
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>> >>> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Here's a handy timeline from the ArtVoice blog. The facts all
>>>>>> >>> >> check
>>>>>> >>> >> out (meaning the author hasn't misrepresented the mostly
>>>>>> >>> >> mainstream
>>>>>> >>> >> articles to which he refers):
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> On the morning of Sept 14, Mohamed El Hassan Mohamed drove his
>>>>>> >>> >> son
>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed to school and at that time, according to NBC
>>>>>> >>> >> Dallas/Ft.Worth,
>>>>>> >>> >> Mohamed "encouraged him to demonstrate his gift of technology"
>>>>>> >>> >> at the
>>>>>> >>> >> school. He was referring to a small plain metal case, inside of
>>>>>> >>> >> which
>>>>>> >>> >> contained the hastily arranged and unshielded electronic
>>>>>> >>> >> components of
>>>>>> >>> >> a 1980's Micronta digital alarm clock. A device Ahmed would
>>>>>> >>> >> repeatedly
>>>>>> >>> >> insist he threw together the night before in just 15 minutes
>>>>>> >>> >> from of
>>>>>> >>> >> "scraps" laying around his house, a device that he himself
>>>>>> >>> >> considered
>>>>>> >>> >> to appear suspicious and threatening.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Defying common sense, it appears that Mohamed, the man who runs
>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>> >>> >> National Reform Party of Sudan, who is considered an
>>>>>> >>> >> enlightened
>>>>>> >>> >> scholar in Sudan, who ran for its presidency twice in the last
>>>>>> >>> >> 5
>>>>>> >>> >> years, whose daughter was suspended from school for a bomb
>>>>>> >>> >> threat,
>>>>>> >>> >> whose son was detained and suspended for multiple disciplinary
>>>>>> >>> >> problems and electronic pranks, in a town recently rocked by a
>>>>>> >>> >> double
>>>>>> >>> >> murder honor killing and lies 25 minutes from the Garland TX
>>>>>> >>> >> Jihadi
>>>>>> >>> >> attack, on the first day back to school after the anniversary
>>>>>> >>> >> of
>>>>>> >>> >> 9-11,
>>>>>> >>> >> encourages his son to bring in a nondescript metal case with a
>>>>>> >>> >> timer
>>>>>> >>> >> and loose wiring inside without being asked to by any teacher,
>>>>>> >>> >> a
>>>>>> >>> >> device even his son admits looked threatening and suspicious.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Next we are told by Ahmed that he shows the device to his 1st
>>>>>> >>> >> period
>>>>>> >>> >> Science teacher who sensitively and politely tells him the
>>>>>> >>> >> device is
>>>>>> >>> >> "nice" but it looks like a bomb and so he should put it away
>>>>>> >>> >> and
>>>>>> >>> >> not
>>>>>> >>> >> take it out and show it to anyone else at school.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> According to Mark Cuban who spoke with an Irving resident who's
>>>>>> >>> >> friend
>>>>>> >>> >> is a teacher in Mac Arthur H.S., Ahmed proceeded to show off
>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>> >>> >> device to each teacher all the way to 6th period where in
>>>>>> >>> >> English
>>>>>> >>> >> class, Ahmed claims to have plugged the device into the wall
>>>>>> >>> >> outlet
>>>>>> >>> >> and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class "to show a
>>>>>> >>> >> friend".
>>>>>> >>> >> When the teacher reacted to the disruption he "unplugged it
>>>>>> >>> >> right
>>>>>> >>> >> away". After showing the English teacher what caused the
>>>>>> >>> >> disruption,
>>>>>> >>> >> the teacher told him it looks like a bomb, that it is making
>>>>>> >>> >> her
>>>>>> >>> >> nervous and would make others nervous, and to put it away in
>>>>>> >>> >> his
>>>>>> >>> >> backpack, to which Ahmed said "I don't think it looks like a
>>>>>> >>> >> bomb". At
>>>>>> >>> >> the end of class the device was confiscated and the Principal
>>>>>> >>> >> alerted.
>>>>>> >>> >> The Irving school system adheres to a zero tolerance policy
>>>>>> >>> >> regarding
>>>>>> >>> >> threatening devices, and being that the possession of such a
>>>>>> >>> >> device
>>>>>> >>> >> with intent to alarm others is a criminal offense in Texas, the
>>>>>> >>> >> police
>>>>>> >>> >> were called to question Ahmed and determine what his intentions
>>>>>> >>> >> were.
>>>>>> >>> >> Later 3 teachers would sign a complaint to the police about a
>>>>>> >>> >> hoax
>>>>>> >>> >> bomb, as the Principal decided to contact the police on the
>>>>>> >>> >> issue.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> The police arrived at school and entered the conference room
>>>>>> >>> >> where
>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed was detained and one officer claimed "that is who I
>>>>>> >>> >> thought it
>>>>>> >>> >> was". Likely referring to Ahmed's past troubles and his
>>>>>> >>> >> family's
>>>>>> >>> >> notoriety. The police questioned Ahmed, and claimed he was not
>>>>>> >>> >> forthcoming, passive aggressive, and would not directly answer
>>>>>> >>> >> their
>>>>>> >>> >> questions. They decided to arrest him for possession of a hoax
>>>>>> >>> >> bomb
>>>>>> >>> >> and bring him to the police station where they would continue
>>>>>> >>> >> their
>>>>>> >>> >> investigation to determine whether he intended to raise alarm
>>>>>> >>> >> with his
>>>>>> >>> >> device, a Class A misdemeanor.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Somehow or other it appears Ahmed's 18 year old sister Eyman
>>>>>> >>> >> found out
>>>>>> >>> >> that Ahmed was being taken to the police station. There is an
>>>>>> >>> >> iconic
>>>>>> >>> >> photo of Ahmed in handcuffs taken by Eyman, and some captions
>>>>>> >>> >> under
>>>>>> >>> >> that photo indicate it was taken at the police station. This
>>>>>> >>> >> implies
>>>>>> >>> >> his sister arrived shortly after Ahmed arrived, because he
>>>>>> >>> >> would
>>>>>> >>> >> not
>>>>>> >>> >> have been in handcuffs after he was released without charge an
>>>>>> >>> >> hour
>>>>>> >>> >> later. There is also speculation Eyman took the photo as Ahmed
>>>>>> >>> >> was
>>>>>> >>> >> leaving the school in handcuffs.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed's father claims the first he heard of his son's problem
>>>>>> >>> >> was from
>>>>>> >>> >> a phone call from the police. We do not know if he arrived with
>>>>>> >>> >> or
>>>>>> >>> >> separate from Eyman. It is hard to believe Eyman heard about
>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>> >>> >> incident and arrived at the police station to take that photo
>>>>>> >>> >> and
>>>>>> >>> >> never alerted her father. If Eyman only knew through her
>>>>>> >>> >> father,
>>>>>> >>> >> this
>>>>>> >>> >> would mean they both arrived at the station in time to see
>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed
>>>>>> >>> >> before he went in a private room for questioning. Improbable
>>>>>> >>> >> but
>>>>>> >>> >> possible. The father's account follows.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> **The first he heard of it was when he received a call from
>>>>>> >>> >> police,
>>>>>> >>> >> who said his son was being charged with having a hoax bomb,
>>>>>> >>> >> Mohamed
>>>>>> >>> >> said.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> He rushed to the police station, where he saw his son
>>>>>> >>> >> "surrounded by
>>>>>> >>> >> five police and he was handcuffed," the father said. Ahmed told
>>>>>> >>> >> his
>>>>>> >>> >> father he'd asked to phone him but the police told him he could
>>>>>> >>> >> not
>>>>>> >>> >> because he was under arrest, Mohamed said.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told
>>>>>> >>> >> me,
>>>>>> >>> >> 'No,
>>>>>> >>> >> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and
>>>>>> >>> >> asking
>>>>>> >>> >> him questions," Mohamed said. "I asked if I could see the thing
>>>>>> >>> >> they
>>>>>> >>> >> were calling a bomb. The police never let me even see it but I
>>>>>> >>> >> knew
>>>>>> >>> >> what my son brought to school. It was an alarm clock that he
>>>>>> >>> >> made. He
>>>>>> >>> >> wakes up with it most mornings. **
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Here we have Mohamed contradicting his son's claim the device
>>>>>> >>> >> was
>>>>>> >>> >> hastily thrown together the night before. His credibility as a
>>>>>> >>> >> responsible parent and supervisor of his child already strained
>>>>>> >>> >> to the
>>>>>> >>> >> limit, he goes on to claim, "my son was hurt and tortured and
>>>>>> >>> >> arrested
>>>>>> >>> >> and mistreated in front of his friends at school".
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> After further questioning, the police could not find anything
>>>>>> >>> >> in
>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed's statements to indicate he intended to cause alarm, and
>>>>>> >>> >> released him without charge.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> The family went on to set off a social media firestorm
>>>>>> >>> >> portraying
>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed as persecuted and harassed, "hurt and tortured" by
>>>>>> >>> >> Islamophobic
>>>>>> >>> >> xenophobic, vindictive officials from the school and police
>>>>>> >>> >> station,
>>>>>> >>> >> holding press conferences where suddenly their son was able to
>>>>>> >>> >> speak
>>>>>> >>> >> in great detail about the incident, as opposed to the "name
>>>>>> >>> >> rank
>>>>>> >>> >> and
>>>>>> >>> >> serial number" routine he gave the police.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> There was never a moment where Mohamed El Hassan expressed even
>>>>>> >>> >> a
>>>>>> >>> >> small fraction of responsibility as the parent the person at
>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>> >>> >> center of this incident. No apology or humility, only strident
>>>>>> >>> >> arrogant and slanderous accusations issued from him. Even today
>>>>>> >>> >> as
>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed has been seen laughing, joking, and smiling all across
>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>> >>> >> USA
>>>>>> >>> >> as he visits dozens of august institutions and famous talk
>>>>>> >>> >> shows
>>>>>> >>> >> that
>>>>>> >>> >> roll out the red carpet for the self proclaimed "inventor of a
>>>>>> >>> >> clock",
>>>>>> >>> >> his family insists Ahmed is "severely traumatized" and "lacking
>>>>>> >>> >> appetite and ability to sleep". Furthermore Mohamed refused to
>>>>>> >>> >> accept
>>>>>> >>> >> the police repeated offer to come pick up the device, while
>>>>>> >>> >> hiring
>>>>>> >>> >> lawyers to sue the police, in part, for refusing to release the
>>>>>> >>> >> device
>>>>>> >>> >> to the family. The family has refused to sign a waiver allowing
>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>> >>> >> school and police from telling their side of the story to the
>>>>>> >>> >> media,
>>>>>> >>> >> while they continue to offer a contradictory version that
>>>>>> >>> >> evolves
>>>>>> >>> >> daily, along side baseless and slanderous accusations against
>>>>>> >>> >> officials.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> According to Ahmed's own words, his authority figure (Science
>>>>>> >>> >> teacher)
>>>>>> >>> >> confirmed Ahmed's own perception and told him his device looked
>>>>>> >>> >> like a
>>>>>> >>> >> bomb and not to show it to anyone. Ahmed then set the alarm on
>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>>> >>> >> device in the middle of class. He appears to have had the
>>>>>> >>> >> intent
>>>>>> >>> >> to
>>>>>> >>> >> evoke some reaction. His actions were reckless, and arguably
>>>>>> >>> >> criminal.
>>>>>> >>> >> Yet the media continues to portray him as a persecuted victim,
>>>>>> >>> >> even as
>>>>>> >>> >> he and his family stood in NYC with the Mayor who proclaimed
>>>>>> >>> >> 9/29/2015
>>>>>> >>> >> as "Ahmed day", before flying to the Middle East where they met
>>>>>> >>> >> with
>>>>>> >>> >> various community and political leaders (including more than
>>>>>> >>> >> one
>>>>>> >>> >> with
>>>>>> >>> >> a history of conducting large-scale massacres of
>>>>>> >>> >> non-combatants).
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>> >>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >>> >> > And for those of you who are wondering "Where on Earth did he
>>>>>> >>> >> > ever
>>>>>> >>> >> > ADMIT
>>>>>> >>> >> > that his creation might look SUSPICIOUS or LIKE A THREAT,
>>>>>> >>> >> > Mister
>>>>>> >>> >> > Smarty
>>>>>> >>> >> > Pants?!", kindly jump to the 1 minute, 30 second point on
>>>>>> >>> >> > this
>>>>>> >>> >> > video
>>>>>> >>> >> > to
>>>>>> >>> >> > see
>>>>>> >>> >> > where he basically admits that he knew the thing would
>>>>>> >>> >> > probably
>>>>>> >>> >> > freak
>>>>>> >>> >> > people
>>>>>> >>> >> > out.
>>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>>> >>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bGeBk8Fus0
>>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>>> >>> >> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>>> >>> >> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> >> I think a more pertinent question might be, please cite
>>>>>> >>> >> >> where
>>>>>> >>> >> >> it's
>>>>>> >>> >> >> illegal
>>>>>> >>> >> >> for police to detain and question 14 year olds.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> >> The teachers followed the rules, and the people who best
>>>>>> >>> >> >> know
>>>>>> >>> >> >> this
>>>>>> >>> >> >> kid
>>>>>> >>> >> >> --
>>>>>> >>> >> >> the teachers who work with him on a daily basis (you know...
>>>>>> >>> >> >> teachers?
>>>>>> >>> >> >> those
>>>>>> >>> >> >> underpaid heroes we love so much? the same people some of
>>>>>> >>> >> >> you
>>>>>> >>> >> >> are
>>>>>> >>> >> >> now
>>>>>> >>> >> >> willing to throw under the bus because it suits your
>>>>>> >>> >> >> OMGRACISM
>>>>>> >>> >> >> worldview?)
>>>>>> >>> >> >> thought his behavior merited action.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> >> Before I bring you guys the most complete narrative I can
>>>>>> >>> >> >> put
>>>>>> >>> >> >> together
>>>>>> >>> >> >> of
>>>>>> >>> >> >> what happened (based on mainstream news sources), HERE is a
>>>>>> >>> >> >> video
>>>>>> >>> >> >> showing
>>>>>> >>> >> >> what it took to "invent" the clock that he "invented"
>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzQjS6tn4w
>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:45 PM, <rbollinger at austin.rr.com>
>>>>>> >>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> Please cite your statute governing reassembled clock
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> parts...
>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> Rob Bollinger
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> Austin TX
>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> ---- ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > teacher, a
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > club
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > did
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > clock
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > fit
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > bring it
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > to
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school?
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > or make
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > a
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > project,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > or in any way bring something to school that was part of
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > an
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > assignment
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > from
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > not show
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > tell.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and put
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > a
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > box and brought it to school.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > a box
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > took
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > sometimes
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > 14
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > box, a
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > plastic
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc...,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > even on
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Halloween
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is dangerous and against the law, young people do make
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > these
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > kinds
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > of
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school as
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the safest place in the world for students. Obviously,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > doing so
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > street may get one killed by a police officer or even a
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > gun
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > toting
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > citizen.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > handcuffed,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > probably,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and asked to write a statement explaining his or her
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > intentions
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is the
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > law.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > It
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > matters not the race or religion of the child.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > experienced
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > but the
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > current
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > act
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > of....welll
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > not courage, but decency.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Experience <
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > store
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > bought
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > clock
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > and put it back together, beyond people online pointing
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > out
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > that
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > doing so
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > child
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > acted
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > as
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > believe,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > this
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > means
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > teachers
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > and
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > police
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > would
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > confuse a circuit board and some wires with something
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > that can
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > explode. If
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > be the
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > case,
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > here),
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > dollar
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > fine.
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> -
>>>>>> >>> >> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>>> >>> >> -
>>>>>> >>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Elisabeth Romberg
>>>> eromberg at mac.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l