Austra and the sisters Vroom

[Joseph Tracy]

No, of course no one should have to be forced into unsought sex. . Slavery is by definition rape and theft accomplished by violence.  But the idea that no one chooses to find and take what pleasures may be had, even as slaves  is equally a Romantic fiction.  I went to a show by a woman african american artist who explores this topic  and seems to come up with historic evidence that house slaves sometimes did what Austra seems to do. Not that we know the possible conflicts within her. My point is that I think she is credible as Pynchon presents her, and the difference between her enslavement and that of the sisters Vroom is illusory. MIght she also be tainted by Pynchon or Cherrycoke's pornographic fantasies? I wouldn't put it past either of them and can see the validity of interpreting her role that way.  
   As far as classifying Pychon's fiction, I don't care to play that game. No one of sincerity and intelligence needs such devices to read, enjoy, and have a meaningful POV, though some find such categories more helpful than others.  What I am interested in is not proving the correctness of my thoughts or disproving others take  but hearing honest responses. The arguments serve in my mind to draw out and refine that range and precision of thought.  No one actually wins except inasmuch as you come away with a broader sense of the author's work as illuminated by readers.

On Feb 6, 2015, at 10:55 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:

> This is why I see the book as much more Romance than historical novel,
> if we are labeling. As Alice is always saying. I suggest TRP's depth
> here is
> manifested in your line "chosen to enjoy".....No, we cry in Gothic or
> human horror....no one should have to be forced into such "enjoyment".
> That is as humanly sick as the sexual 'perversions' in GR.....
> 
> Her 'enjoyment' is a Romantic fiction--perhaps as SOME argued about
> Jefferson's long sexual relationship with Sally Hemmings....that she
> was powerless
> IS the horror.....
> 
> "Dark romanticism (often conflated with Gothicism or called American
> romanticism) is a literary subgenre[1] centered on the writers Edgar
> Allan Poe, Nathaniel Hawthorne and Herman Melville.[2]
> As opposed to the perfectionist beliefs of Transcendentalism, the Dark
> Romantics emphasized human fallibility and proneness to sin and
> self-destruction, as well as the difficulties inherent in attempts at
> social reform.[3]"
> 
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> I agree it is ghastly what she is forced into. Both slavery and absolute obedience are cancerous. But I am trying to see things from the POV of Austra who seems to have chosen to enjoy as much of her life as she can and has a kind of clarity and breadth of experiience that gives her a certain freedom of spirit. I do not envy her, but am compelled to admire her more than the sisters Vroom who do not seem to know that they are little more than choice cuts in a devil's butcher shop.
>> On Feb 5, 2015, at 9:25 PM, David Morris wrote:
>> 
>>> Austra's complete willingness, compliance, with Vroom plans to breed her like an animal, and to sell off her kennel's premium is ghastly.  That complete submission and willingness to follow orders puts her into the realm of monster. She is potential bomb. She has been morally engineered to have no morals other than submission. Such engineering always has its blind spot(s).  The Golem, Frankenstein, the Duck, Slothrup, their engineering might go awry...
>>> 
>>> Let's hope so.
>>> 
>>> David Morris
>>> 
>>> BTW, I love the name Vroom.  The word is what you read in the puff of exhaust in a cartoon.
>>> 
>>> On Thursday, February 5, 2015, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>> But Mason is not able to be in Rome. He is deeply seated in his own unresolved inner and outer life which keeps him at a profound  distance from the world created by the Voc. Even the immediacy and appeal of Austra cannot bring him to abandon that inner pursuit.  There is something here also reminiscent of the biblical Sarah and Hagar her servant who she offers to Abraham. Johanna seems to want to bind Mason to a patriarchal role, but he is not much attracted to that.
>>> 
>>> The sisters Vroom and Johanna are a study in middle class and even suburban domesticity and privilege. They have financial security and minimal work responsibilities, but a very small world within which to operate, and it's defined by the bland tastes and social concerns of Cornelius Vroom.  Their blondeness, (whiteness) and attractiveness are the tools they perceive realistically as key to social status. Tey serve as an advertisement for a life that is boring them to death.They are as colonized and in some ways more so than Austra who has access to the full range of music, food, sexual pleasure and conversation denied the sisters.  They may not even know how they are being used  regarding Austra since Johann seems to be the master manipulator there.
>>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2015, at 7:34 PM, Mark Kohut wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Well-Chosen Quotes from GR and:
>>>> 
>>>> "This is how it's done here - the heady mixture of sex, commerce and
>>>> power - sanctified in a way that brothels clearly aren't, can never
>>>> be. The link between master and slave is sex-slave, Austra's telling
>>>> him. When in Rome ...
>>>> 
>>>> And with this sex-slave-power-commerce trip going on in a sea-port
>>>> populated by rowdy sailors, how can it not affect even the wives and
>>>> daughters?"
>>>> 
>>>> Laura
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This is a well-said, as usual, way I would read it too...to me most of
>>>> the scenes in M & D are very like many of the scenes in GR....that
>>>> irreal, idea-containing ahistorical novel.
>>>> -
>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> 
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list

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