Mass and Velocity of Slavery Ch 7

Sun Feb 8 21:16:09 CST 2015

No matter abuse or cushioned landing, all souls seek comfort, or adventure,
in widely mixed ratios. DM

On Sunday, February 8, 2015, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:

> Joseph wrote: "The second was the recurrent Pynchonian theme of escape
> into the domain of the preterite. Allow me to expand on that theme.  Dixon
> feels right at home in the wilder, non-Dutch areas of capetown and invites
> Mason to check it out. This is an interesting contrast to Mason's invite to
> Dixon to enjoy the public hangings as an intro to local Urban English
> culture. Now Mason is not a Blicero or Pointsman but he is  attracted to
> something in the culture of death  and control which bears some similarity
> to the struggle with that deterministic mindset explored in GR. He is on
> the other hand repulsed by the police state of the Voc and the practice of
> slavery.
> Mason is fearful about the dangers but goes with Dixon; he likes the food,
> sociability, drink  and ambience but when it comes to sexual exploration is
> still bound by the puritanism Mark is elaborating on, or maybe he sees
> sexual union as much more intense and fraught than other pleasures. He
> seems to be looking for messages about the larger meaning of life and  and
> needs something to resolve the loss of his wife. It seems to me that what
> he needs to know was whether the love he shared in marriage was a taste of
> ultimate reality or a self delusion in a world ruled by physics and death."
>
> Any takes on M & D as Freudian Thanatos & Eros? We know P is richly
> educated in psychoanalytic theory. If I had time, I'd expound. Maybe
> someone else got that ball?
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 6:47 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bekker2 at icloud.com');>> wrote:
>
>> I went to Quaker silent meetings  in the 1970s in the Bay Area.  I
>> enjoyed them but after about a year I drifted away - I attended a meeting a
>> few months ago.  Lovely setting - it’s just too far (30 miles) and I’m too
>> much of a hermit.  God is a given but Quakers don’t have to be Christian -
>> some are, some aren’t.
>>
>> Becky
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 8, 2015, at 3:14 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fqmorris at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> >
>> > My sister in Portsmouth NH has been attending Quaker Sunday meetings
>> for a couple years. I attended once. It was mostly a group of about 100
>> people sitting in silence. I was introduced and welcomed. Near the end two
>> or three people felt moved to make statements or observations, nothing
>> earth-shaking.  Afterwards my sister said the meeting felt "chatty." Them
>> NH Quakers are mighty silent.
>> >
>> > David Morris
>> >
>> > On Sunday, February 8, 2015, <kelber at mindspring.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kelber at mindspring.com');>> wrote:
>> > Back in the late 60s/early '70s, a number of my parents' lefty Jewish
>> friends either converted or considered converting their family to
>> Quakerism, so that their sons could register as Conscientious Objectors
>> via-a-vis the Vietnam draft. I remember one guy laughing and saying that it
>> all seemed so perfect - Quakers are anti-war, non-hierarchical, tolerant,
>> into silent meditation. There's just one big drawback: they expect you to
>> actually believe in God! A deal-breaker.
>> >
>> > Laura
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mark.kohut at gmail.com');>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >Quakers:  from wikipedia. Below
>> > >
>> > > A very non-stricture-ruled religion.... as I adumbrated....started by
>> > >BREAKING AWAY from the Church of England
>> > >almost gnostic in many ways, as you've taught us to look for,
>> > >Alice...yes,not Anti-Puritan, not atheist, not agnostic so not EXACT
>> > >OPPOSITE
>> > > but Profane in Eliade's sense, he is, I suggest. His Quakerism
>> > >manifests itself in the Life Embrace over any dogmatic beliefs of any
>> > >kind...he even
>> > >conforms to be willing to go to war.......he is a bad Quaker on top of
>> > >whatever Quakerism he supposedly embraces..
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >"The central unifying doctrine of these movements is the priesthood of
>> > >all believers,
>> > >
>> > > "Unlike many other groups that emerged within Christianity, the
>> > >Religious Society of Friends has actively tried to avoid creeds and
>> > >hierarchical structures".
>> > >
>> > >"Today, slightly less than half of Friends worldwide practice
>> > >programmed worship[7]--that is, worship with singing and a prepared
>> > >message from the Bible,"
>> > >
>> > > "The movement arose from the Legatine-Arians and other dissenting
>> > >Protestant groups, breaking away from the established Church of
>> > >England."
>> > >
>> > > .."stressing the importance of a direct relationship with God, and a
>> > >direct religious belief in the universal priesthood of all believers."
>> > >
>> > >On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 6:25 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alicewmalice at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> > >> He is not Atheist, not Agnostic. not Unitarian. He's a Quaker,
>> > >> practical and mystical.
>> > >>
>> > >> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mark.kohut at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> > >>> Addendum question to this nice gloss: Mason is a God-fearing
>> Puritan;
>> > >>> is Dixon a virtual godless Opposite? is his Quakerism very like the
>> > >>> spiritual easiness of Unitarianism, say. (By that I mean little
>> dogma
>> > >>> and few strictures) Is his sometimes licentious, almost hedonistic
>> (at
>> > >>> times) embrace of life's pleasures and opportunities---the Profane?
>> > >>>
>> > >>>  The Sacred and the Profane in that famous two-step?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','brook7 at sover.net');>> wrote:
>> > >>>> What part is confusing? I was just trying to move on in Ch 7 with
>> some things that caught my own interest.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>  The first was the similarity between P's description of the
>> socio-psychological effects of slavery, and the possibility that these are
>> comparable to the psychological effects of recent US imperial wars or all
>> wars to dominate and seize resouces. They both sound like PTSD to me. He
>> metaphorically gives abuse, exploitation and violence a karmic mass and
>> velocity  which is as destructive to the abuser as the abused.  Whether
>> this passage is being put in the mouth of Cherrycoke or not it is very
>> reminiscent of similarly omniscient sounding sentences in GR.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> The second was the recurrent Pynchonian theme of escape into the
>> domain of the preterite. Allow me to expand on that theme.  Dixon feels
>> right at home in the wilder, non-Dutch areas of capetown and invites Mason
>> to check it out. This is an interesting contrast to Mason's invite to Dixon
>> to enjoy the public hangings as an intro to local Urban English culture.
>> Now Mason is not a Blicero or Pointsman but he is  attracted to something
>> in the culture of death  and control which bears some similarity to the
>> struggle with that deterministic mindset explored in GR. He is on the other
>> hand repulsed by the police state of the Voc and the practice of slavery.
>> > >>>> Mason is fearful about the dangers but goes with Dixon; he likes
>> the food, sociability, drink  and ambience but when it comes to sexual
>> exploration is still bound by the puritanism Mark is elaborating on, or
>> maybe he sees sexual union as much more intense and fraught than other
>> pleasures. He seems to be looking for messages about the larger meaning of
>> life and  and needs something to resolve the loss of his wife. It seems to
>> me that what he needs to know was whether the love he shared in marriage
>> was a taste of ultimate reality or a self delusion in a world ruled by
>> physics and death.
>> > >>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 11:06 PM, David Morris wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>> Whaa....
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> On Friday, February 6, 2015, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','brook7 at sover.net');>> wrote:
>> > >>>>> On Pg 68 P describes slavery and all its accumulated cruelties as
>> having weight and velocity. He then describes what sounds like what is
>> currently described as PTSD, how despair and  suicides are high among both
>> slaves and slavers. P then "lightens the mood with Mason and Dixon's
>> brotherly bickering. Mason is handling it by imagining he has gone to a
>> strange planet inhabited by aleins where the VOC owns all. Dixon points out
>> there are regions not under their control and urges him to join him in
>> escaping the Vroom house and exploring those places. Thus begins a series
>> of adventures in those outposts not controlled by the Voc.
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> -
>> > >>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> -
>> > >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> > >>> -
>> > >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> > >> -
>> > >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> > >-
>> > >Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> > -
>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>
>
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