We were all right....Mason & Dixon

Mon Jul 20 21:51:12 CDT 2015

https://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=9201&sort=date

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 9:44 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
> 80s? I thought the list started in the 90s. How old is this thing, really?
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 12:36 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Flame wars were common, but detracted mostly. Follow the archives from the
>> early 80's. The good old days.  Extremely high discourse was not rare. The
>> Internet being slower then was a good thing.  I also remember back then all
>> these "off list" private recruitment for sides or denouncements.  At first I
>> resisted those tugs at my alliegance, but jumped cannonball into the pool
>> not long after. It's been about 20 years or more now.  Still fun, and still
>> today discussion here can be impressive in its scope and depth and
>> diversity.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Monday, July 20, 2015, kelber at mindspring.com <kelber at mindspring.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Think a raging flame war would've held people's interest. We erred on the
>>> side of civility. And all those competing facebook pages don't help!
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>
>>> John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> There were lots of successful group reads in the past.
>>>
>>> I blame the changing culture of the internet. Back then there just
>>> wasn't that much to do online, so more people could spend an hour or
>>> three with a book and a browser and a leisurely mind.
>>>
>>> Of course I'm romanticising but in the global shopping mall that the
>>> Deep Archer and most of the web has become, the P-List is a rag and
>>> bone shop. If we had more funny quizzes, lists like the Six Most
>>> Amazing Ways Pynchon Will Improve Your Sex Life, ways to tag each
>>> other in emails, ability to autogenerate our favourite P characters as
>>> avatars, some kind of dedicated app, a gamified reward system that
>>> gave us badges for posting more, a font of our own, a Game of Thrones
>>> crossover week, a photo feed and sold advertising space that can be
>>> blocked so users think that the real product isn't our data, maybe
>>> we'd have a chance? Seriously, why isn't someone selling our data
>>> here? We're nothing!
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:36 AM, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I blame myself.  I was simply in no condition to participate on a
>>> > regular basis @ the time.
>>> >
>>> > Meanwhile, some day, the Inherent Vice group watch?
>>> >
>>> > http://pdl.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/awards2014/pdf/iv.pdf
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> When enough are not newly reading and responding, the silence is loud.
>>> >> And one needs to be following the bouncing ball
>>> >> when one posts who is, otherwise it is not new.
>>> >>
>>> >> Too many too busy or otherwise out of the Group Read. Life in late
>>> >> capitalism ain't easy.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 2:34 PM, David Ewers <dsewers at comcast.net>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I believe you're on to something with why the group read fizzled, Mark
>>> >>> T.,
>>> >>> although I think we had it going pretty good for a while there.  I'm
>>> >>> not
>>> >>> sure it's impossible to maintain that managed flow-through you
>>> >>> describe, but
>>> >>> (speaking for myself) it does seem to require some obsessing to do the
>>> >>> discussion justice.  It's tough to be obsessed for several months
>>> >>> straight.
>>> >>> Maybe we should have built some time-outs into the schedule?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Out of curiosity, is anyone still giving M-&D- the deep reading
>>> >>> treatment?
>>> >>> If so, where are you?
>>> >>> I've slowed down a lot in my M-&D- reading, lightened up some, picked
>>> >>> up
>>> >>> other books, etc., but I've got notes up to chapter 35.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I hope everyone (in the Northern Hemisphere...) is having a bitchin'
>>> >>> summer!
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Jul 19, 2015, at 11:44 AM have a nice day, violet wrote this
>>> >>> message:),
>>> >>> Mark Thibodeau wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I think the reason why group reads of Pynchon tend to break down (and
>>> >>> I say
>>> >>> this with a guilty conscience at my own part in the unraveling of the
>>> >>> last
>>> >>> M&D group read attempt) is that his work is SO RICH and full of
>>> >>> constant,
>>> >>> almost fractal levels of allusion and multi-contextual referencing
>>> >>> (moreso
>>> >>> perhaps than any writer aside from Joyce) that trying to maintain some
>>> >>> kind
>>> >>> of managed flow-through is literally impossible to do.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Any reader takes from a work of art only that which he or she is
>>> >>> capable of
>>> >>> taking. We all bring our own personal contexts into some kind of
>>> >>> intermeshing with the context of the work that we're approaching.
>>> >>> Someone
>>> >>> steeped in pre-Revolutionary American history will have a different
>>> >>> reading
>>> >>> experience from someone who knows a lot about, say, the history of
>>> >>> science.
>>> >>> Both will find it a masterwork, but for different reasons.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> For that reason, I think Pynchon slots in with those writers who are
>>> >>> both
>>> >>> difficult AND rewarding.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> MT
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Misc.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> just read an interesting essay by Stanley Greenblatt, Shakespeare and
>>> >>>> Beyond
>>> >>>> Scholar---this essay is on Milton, however---that applies to many a
>>> >>>> great
>>> >>>> writer
>>> >>>> including our writer from Long Island.......
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thesis: The depth of full scholarship analysis of such as Milton, say
>>> >>>> another
>>> >>>> long book on all the subtleties and breadth and depth of his politics
>>> >>>> explored thru
>>> >>>> his major poems......tends to kill why he is great.....
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> The poetry on the page.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Discuss.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>> > is an incredible book....
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > Throw out more stuff about....
>>> >>>> -
>>> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >> -
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