A Ranking of Pynchon's Novels

Fri Jul 24 04:53:00 CDT 2015

Very intriguing perspective about which I will only offer a counter opinion from within it, so to speak. CofL49 is about that sense of contingency in the end. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 22, 2015, at 8:39 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> David said, "the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is Pynchon's masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that don't. We could start flame wars about these differences. That might be illuminating, and fun..."
> 
> Since I was one of the (few) people who didn't rank GR first, let me try to shed some light, but not heat.  The most recent time I re-read GR, I was as impressed as ever with it intellectually, but it didn't seem as human as M&D.  Maybe a central question of M&D is, Why did we end up with this country instead of another?  That's question in many of Pynchon's novels (AtD (this world instead of another) and both Inherent Vice and Vineland (this California instead of another). That sense of contingency, that sense that things could have been different, speaks to me, and I find it missing in GR (and V and TCoL49 before it), where there is such a strong sense of predetermination, of the discovery of a hidden order and conspiracy, whether in the pattern of the V-2s falling on London or the printed-circuit-like layout of San Narciso. I'm presenting this as a dichotomy, but of course something of that sense of another country is in the earlier books, for example in a great passage just before the end of TCoL49 which I can't find online just now.  Still, from this perspective you can be impressed by the intellectual pyrotechnics of GR (it is second on my list, after all), and yet still think of it as a not-yet-matured work relative to M&D.  If Pynchon had written M&D in the 70s and GR two decades later, might their relative statures in everyone's eyes be the reverse? 
> 
> Those are just a few thoughts tonight. I reserve the right to change my mind completely tomorrow.
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:58 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Those that have read all of Pynchon's novels are familiar with each ones qualities and differences. Thus there is a common unspoken understanding of the overall picture. But the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is Pynchon's masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that don't. We could start flame wars about these differences. That might be illuminating, and fun...
>> 
>> David Morris 
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Conor McDade <fpsconor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I am only a youth, so I apologize for my naivete, but what is the point of these lists without providing any insight as to why you listed them in such order? Is it simply to see how people's tastes vary? 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Chris v <traditionalgb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 1. AtD
>>>> 2. M&D
>>>> 3. GR
>>>> 4. VL 
>>>> 5. IV
>>>> 6. CoL49
>>>> 7. V. 
>>>> 8. SL
>>>> 9. BE (haven't read yet)
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Why doesn't Ms. Jackson (and Thomas) make that happen, you think? Why wasn't there a 50th Anniversary edition Of V? seems about every modern " classic" was so " honored" Think Pynchon does not believe in such anniversary editions? 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:51 AM, James Robertson <james at themutedposthorn.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I sure wish someone would record an audiobook of V, and Vineland. That new George Guidall version of GR is marvellous.
>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 8:48 pm jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 2nd that!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 2015-07-22 9:55 GMT+02:00 Heikki R <situations.journeys.comedy at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>> 1. Gravity's Rainbow
>>>>>>>> 2. V.
>>>>>>>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>>>>>>>> 4. The Crying of Lot 49
>>>>>>>> 5. Vineland
>>>>>>>> 6. Against the Day
>>>>>>>> 7. Inherent Vice
>>>>>>>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In fact, on a couple of occasions, the contestants were shoulder-to-shoulder. But I decided to avoid ties (perhaps for tactical reasons). 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Heikki
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:02 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Eaux Contraire!
>>>>>>>>> Inclusion is de facto non-flame. Love is the answer.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> David Morris   
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ...  speaking of flame wars ...
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:04 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > Elected Officials are all we got in this semi-democracy. Love it or Leave
>>>>>>>>>> > it.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > We need to embrace democracy, with all its warts. We are extremely lucky to
>>>>>>>>>> > be living in a place where we would want to discuss this abstraction.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > David Morris
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> Americans will vote for almost anything except elected officials.
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> > Voting is so American Idol!  I want my choice to win!
>>>>>>>>>> >> > Face facts: Votes aren't gunna be backed up by essays.
>>>>>>>>>> >> > David Morris
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> No, it just means that mathematical averages cannot capture the
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> delightful diversity of our responses! Collating the different lists
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> into one loses something the way that a plot summary of a P novel will
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> never suffice.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:10 PM, David Ewers <dsewers at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > I feel so redundant!
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:53 PM Jolly good day we are having, John Bailey
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> The order seems to remain the same.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:55 AM, David Ewers <dsewers at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Me too!
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 1. V.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 2. Gravity's Rainbow
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Against the Day
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Crying of Lot 49
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 6. Vineland
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 7. Inherent Vice
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:22 PM Jolly good day we are having, Mark
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Thibodeau
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> I love the diversity of opinions, too, but I'm kind of surprised at
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> how bad
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> V. is faring!
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> MT/J
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Ian Livingston
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> Love the diversity of rankings in rating one great author. Rather
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> like six
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> blind men describing an elephant. We each have our opinions and
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> our
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> reasons
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for them. I love GR, I truly do, and it may be the greater work
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> all it
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> did to shape postmodernism, but:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 1. M&D
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 2. GR
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 3. AtD
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 4. V. / COL 49  (tie)
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 5. Vineland
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 6. BE
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 7. IV
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 8. Slow Learner
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:48 PM, glenn fuller
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> <glennfuller at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> G.R.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> A.t.D.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> T.C.O.L.49
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> Vineland
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> M&D
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> I.V.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> B.E.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> V
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> -
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> 
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