the Deep State above the Deep Web. Or 'As above, so below"?

[Mark Kohut]

Peter Dale Scott: It’s always great to be on this show.

Peter Phillips: We’re really happy to have you here. I’ve just
finished reading your book, The American Deep State: Wall Street, Big
Oil and the Attack on US Democracy, and it’s a nice follow-up to your
book The American War Machine, which I used in my class this semester.
I really want to ask: In your new book you talk about the egalitarian
mindset culture of America. We believe in the Constitution, the Bill
of Rights, open government, transparency. And then you say also that
there’s a dark side, or a deep side inside America that’s repressive,
that is looking to be able to detain people without warrants,
warrantless wire tapping and all of that – there’s a repressive side.
Can you tell us a little bit more about how you frame this
understanding of this culture of repression?

Peter Dale Scott: Actually, I think there’s always been a deep state
in America and there have been times when it has been very repressive.
We’re in a period of, you might say, surplus repression – repression
that doesn’t serve anyone’s interests, not even the interests of the
ruling class. It’s not the first time in American history. I would say
probably a good analogy would be 1919 and the Palmer Raids, which is a
period in America history that I think everyone’s embarrassed by now
because some very fine people like Emma Goldman, who was actually a US
citizen, got deported without any procedure whatsoever.

Taking apart what you just said, I believe there has always been a
deep state in this country, even before the Revolution. You could say
the deep state found it convenient to have a revolution and get free
from the British government which was about to end slavery, which
would have been extremely embarrassing for a lot of businessmen in
America, North and South.

But it’s not in its essence repressive; it’s just repressive when it
wants to be. I think a lot of the trouble we’re in now, actually is –
and I say this in my book – that in the 1970s the deep state – the
bankers, the lawyers, the people in foundations, all kinds of people –
were really quite terrified at the forces in America calling for
revolution – the African-Americans, the riots we had in big cities but
also, equally and perhaps ultimately even more, the anti-war movement
because if you had a successful anti-war movement that would mean
America would have to get out of the business of war. And that was, I
think, an intolerable thought for them.

So you had the Lewis Powell memo in 1971, which said that those of us
in power should mobilize our wealth and resources to do something
about this phenomenon.
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l