Re: What Do We Really Know About Osama bin Laden’s Death?

[ish mailian]

Killing OBL had and has nothing to do with democracy. The lawyers who write
about it, justify it, sanction it, condone, or condemn it, will only push
out the democracy idea when they have no serious legal arguments to make.
Murder is always murder. Sometimes the state murders people. Some are
citizens and some heads of state. Sometimes the state murders innocent
people. Sometimes the state pays for its mistakes. Sometimes it doesn't.
When a state like the US wages war, life, on the other side, is cheap, dirt
cheap. OBL was expensive propaganda.

On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 3:18 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:

> The idea, one that Clinton & Co. advanced and GWB used for his filthy
> campaign of murder, and Obama still spouts, that the US can spread
> democracy, or act like a model of democracy, has done more damage in
> post-cold war period than any other.   Democracy is hard enough to keep
> alive in nations where liberal ideas have long roots, but even in Europe
> and in the US, democracy fails to function when other interests crowd it
> out. This is why war is something that we must try to avoid. But war and
> conflict are not avoidable.  So, no-brainer that Bush's war on Iraq was
> avoidable, but no the war in Afghanistan. OBL was merely a bit player and
> symbol of that conflict, one the US had to wage. Killing him was a
> no-brainer too.
>
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 1:42 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree in principle, Ish. Reality is complex and full of paradox.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Saturday, October 31, 2015, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The argument that the enemies of America and its democracy (OBL & C0.)
>>> are only a threat to America and its democratic ideas because  the Military
>>> Industrial Complex and the government are engaged in a seemingly endless
>>> conflict or series of wars is not new. It's older that Eisenhower's famous
>>> statement, older than Madison's warning. While I agree with the argument,
>>> in the abstract, it's useless when the reality is that the enemies are not
>>> merely made by US murder and money. The world is far too complex for simple
>>> arguments about democracy and how it may be preserved or how things are
>>> supposed to work in a democracy. We can take some simple comfort in the
>>> fact that, as the Beatles said, It's getting better all the time", but if
>>> we want more than simple comfort, we need to acknowledge the complexity of
>>> conflicts and recognize that the US has an unenviable part to play in them,
>>> that sometimes involves assassination and the mass murder of innocence.
>>>
>>
>
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